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27.02.2022, 10:24
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | It is a view. But I miss the point. He says that UA would not accept offering neutrality / demilitarization. But he suggests that the West should negotiate with Russia now? About what? Pulling NATO troops out of New NATO?
I smell a rat.
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27.02.2022, 10:26
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SZ
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Pornhub blocking not true either. | | | | | So you are watching porn using a Russian IP address?
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27.02.2022, 10:27
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I am not Ukrainian, but I am Eastern European. Eastern Europe generally suffered brutally during WWII both ways: occupied by the Nazis and then occupied by the Soviets. However, the pain from the Soviets was much much larger and of course, longer. Combine this with the fact that big parts of Eastern Europe way before WWII have oscillated towards Germany and one can understand people who supported the power which is AGAINST the USSR. It's a very subtle and important distinction and many many people of my grandfathers generation supported Germany as an opposing force against Russia without being Nazis in any shape or form because they understood that one will win against the other and they can't fight it as the West already abandoned this part of the world. Call it cold and sad pragmatism if you will, but this is not nazism.
. | | | | | My grand-grandfathers and grandfathers were always saying after the second world war "It can't be it. This (puppet communist regimes imposed by USSR) will not last for ever. The Americans will come.."...and they came, but it took them way longer than my grandfather thought and hoped for. My father grew up with "Americans will come.." mantra.
Last edited by greenmount; 27.02.2022 at 16:16.
Reason: clarification
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27.02.2022, 10:34
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | My grand-grandfathers and grandfathers were always saying after the second world war "It can't be it. This (puppet communist regimes imposed by USSR) will not resist for ever. The Americans will come.."...and they came, but it took them way longer than my grandfather thought. My father grew up with "Americans will come.." mantra. | | | | | My generation, me included, grew up with „the Americans will come“ mantra. I left USSR is 1991 and haven’t lived in modern Russia, but from what I see this mantra is pretty much alive today.
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27.02.2022, 10:35
|  | Moderately Dutch | | Join Date: May 2011 Location: Zurich
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | My grand-grandfathers and grandfathers were always saying after the second world war "It can't be it. This (puppet communist regimes imposed by USSR) will not resist for ever. The Americans will come.."...and they came, but it took them way longer than my grandfather thought. My father grew up with "Americans will come.." mantra. | | | | | Well, my country was really happy they (together with Canadians, Brits, Polish and many more) came. But that was another war, never to be forgotten.
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27.02.2022, 10:37
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Bitcoin should be banned from the face of our planet. It only promotes criminal activity and climate change. | | | | | The genie is already out of the bottle. Too late now. | Quote: | |  | | | Photoshopped fake news.
Not true. Pornhub blocking not true either. | | | | | I doubt anyone was supposed to take it seriously. | 
27.02.2022, 10:40
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: BL
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I doubt anyone was supposed to take it seriously.  | | | | | Moreover, pornhub has a moral duty to keep itself open to Russia. It's probably the only pressure-release valve left to the soviets now, don't take it away! | 
27.02.2022, 10:45
| Member | | Join Date: May 2017 Location: Zurich
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | My grand-grandfathers and grandfathers were always saying after the second world war "It can't be it. This (puppet communist regimes imposed by USSR) will not resist for ever. The Americans will come.."...and they came, but it took them way longer than my grandfather thought. My father grew up with "Americans will come.." mantra. | | | | | I don't want to generalize too much, but I will try to find a comparison to explain the relationship of post-USSR countries (I'm from Poland btw.).
Russia (USSR) is like your older brother, that was abusing, beating you and stealing your toys and sweets in the past. At some point you got separated and you started to build your own life without him, even though that it's not always easy, because you carry many scars (both mental and physical).
Now, after years this brother is back and looks to get along. But you know he hasn't changed and still has his club in hand. So all you have to say to him is:
- Just f*** off, will you? I don't want your help, I'm healing myself, things start to work for me because you're not there. Go back to wherever your are, leave me alone, I don't trust your words and promises. I don't care that you're my "family". You never said sorry or regretted anything and you still don't want to do that. I have different aspirations and for me it's not about solving things with clubs now. So just f*** off and let me live my life.
That's how we feel it. The problem is - he is still a thug with the bigger club.
Last edited by Excad; 27.02.2022 at 11:24.
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27.02.2022, 10:48
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Zürich
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | In the conclusion in his article, rather than end on Ukraine, he just had to have a dig at the Tories, and got it so wrong:
The ten year law has been around for centuries.
The new law is not to stop Protests and Marches at all but to prevent the infrastructure of the U.K. being crippled like it was with the "professional" protesters who recently blocked the U.Ks motorways.
Pretty sad to use an article on Ukraine to make a political statement unconnected with Ukraine. | | | | | not clear what you are angry about
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27.02.2022, 10:59
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kanton Luzern
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | not clear what you are angry about | | | | | You are mistaking anger with me ridiculing the article to which you linked.
It was hardly the 'nuanced view' which you described.
I wasn't the only one who thought that too so try not to make this personal (again).
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27.02.2022, 11:01
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Zürich
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I am a universal expert. Like all of us. | | | | | giving advises how to find couple. expensive. very
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27.02.2022, 11:01
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Zürich
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | If Ukraine survives tonight, NATO will apply for membership to Ukraine  | | | | | where is f&%&g membership?
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27.02.2022, 11:01
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Well, my country was really happy they (together with Canadians, Brits, Polish and many more) came. But that was another war, never to be forgotten. | | | | | Of course, my family and my country too. Being admitted to NATO was a historic moment for everybody.
EU too, although with the second one we cannot see the benefits for the moment, but of course they are and the progress is very slow, although it is still a progress.
Where would countries like Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Slovakia etc be now if we weren't part of Nato? Even so, we are still afraid.... I am personally more afraid for Moldova these days, I hope the West will be more decided to help them too, not only Ukraine.
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27.02.2022, 11:02
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Cool thought. But this is not going to be decided in one night.
Office calls now - people freaking about Swift ... | | | | | Turkey was decided in one night
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27.02.2022, 11:08
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: BL
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Nothing will happen to this guy or to others like him, don't get very optimistic. Western Europe will never acknowledge their guilt or persecute his ilk. It's only EE who are corrupted, haven't you been taught this by now..
I would rather see concrete actions for debunking Russian propaganda*, it's been going on for decades and they (the "west") were fed with it very generously. | | | | | I agree with you that it won't happen, I was just thinking "aloud" with my naïve hat on
EE is corrupted, I know it from experience, we have our own battles to win to clean it up, no question. But EE is also still in an identity crisis without strong and established institutions. As such, we are in need of a role model and in the 90s we saw the "west" as infallible and morally superior. Now were seeing things a bit more realistically and start to look elsewhere.
It's a serious problem because in certain parts of EE the pro-Russian sentiment is on the rise (or at least was prior to the Ukraine invasion) as their propaganda machine is in full gear and this combined with the undermined trust in the "west" is a powerful and toxic mix.
Today, in Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, Czech you see either governments or parliament represented parties which openly talk about leaving NATO and EU. This was unthinkable a decade ago, it's now reality. My hope is that the silver lining to the Ukraine crisis will be an awakening that "hell, Russia is absolutely evil! our only chance is NATO and EU" and then stop with the self-searching once and for all. It's nothing else but a civilizational choice and the west needs to understand that it IS a role model for us and their actions are very carefully watched in the east.
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27.02.2022, 11:08
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | "As for denazification – which certainly is needed in Ukraine..." and I believe he is wrong. | | | | | denazifikation needed for this guy head
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27.02.2022, 11:11
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Photoshopped fake news.
Not true. Pornhub blocking not true either. | | | | | hahaha lol. didnt know someone will take it serious
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27.02.2022, 11:13
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SZ
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | where is f&%&g membership? | | | | | There will be no membership in either NATO or EU anytime soon. Let's be realistic. The West will supply plenty of weapons and other support, but that is it.
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27.02.2022, 11:17
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | There will be no membership in either NATO or EU anytime soon. Let's be realistic. The West will supply plenty of weapons and other support, but that is it. | | | | | will see. i'm a bit skeptical about EU but Nato probably will happen quite soon
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27.02.2022, 11:17
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | There will be no membership in either NATO or EU anytime soon. Let's be realistic. The West will supply plenty of weapons and other support, but that is it. | | | | | Well, I wouldn't be so sure about that anymore. (As a keyboard-strategist  ) we still don't know Putin's endgame and the outcome of the mess could be a scenario in which he splits Ukraine in east, dominated by him and an independent west, which could then be part of a deal to be accepted into EU and NATO. I am not saying it's an ideal outcome, but it's certainly a possibility.
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