Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #3181  
Old 27.02.2022, 15:35
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 18,437
Groaned at 821 Times in 640 Posts
Thanked 28,607 Times in 11,564 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Russian MoD: Ukraine's Forces Use Banned Phosphorus Munitions Outside Kiev

https://sputniknews.com/20220227/rus...093422868.html


Will they use this as a pretence to use nuclear weapons?
Have you got an independent source?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #3182  
Old 27.02.2022, 15:36
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 4,089
Groaned at 399 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 8,790 Times in 3,758 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
It´s nothing to do with Biden, these are the MAD mechanisms kicking in.
Ahem. I am quite sure it is the Commander in Chief who can order DEFCON. And we are far from a MAD scenario. If Putin feels so cornered that he starts lashing out, he would probably use a tactical nuclear strike in Ukraine.

Can't believe I am writing this.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #3183  
Old 27.02.2022, 15:41
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,381
Groaned at 721 Times in 605 Posts
Thanked 24,090 Times in 12,615 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
And here we go. Putin orders RU nuclear forces on combat alert.
I wonder if the Chinese are rethinking their support for Putin?
Reply With Quote
  #3184  
Old 27.02.2022, 15:43
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 588
Groaned at 103 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 1,583 Times in 823 Posts
John William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Ahem. I am quite sure it is the Commander in Chief who can order DEFCON. And we are far from a MAD scenario. If Putin feels so cornered that he starts lashing out, he would probably use a tactical nuclear strike in Ukraine.

Can't believe I am writing this.
Tears for Fears sums up the latest situation nicely.

Tears for Fears - It's a Mad World pop video
Reply With Quote
  #3185  
Old 27.02.2022, 15:45
leonie
 
Posts: n/a
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Moscow reports that Ukraine agreed to talk to Russia in Gomel, Belarus.

For their peoples sake please let them stop fighting and start talking. This is madness and must be stopped.
According to RIA News:

The Ambassador of Ukraine called the ceasefire and the withdrawal of troops the conditions for negotiations with Russia

Kyiv will demand a cessation of hostilities and the withdrawal of Russian troops in negotiations with Moscow. Such conditions of the Ukrainian side were called by the country's ambassador to Turkey, Vasily Bodnar, RIA Novosti reports.

According to him, the meeting between the delegations of Ukraine and Russia on the Ukrainian-Belarusian border could lead to a ceasefire.
Reply With Quote
  #3186  
Old 27.02.2022, 15:49
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 4,757
Groaned at 705 Times in 477 Posts
Thanked 4,708 Times in 2,488 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Ahem. I am quite sure it is the Commander in Chief who can order DEFCON. And we are far from a MAD scenario. If Putin feels so cornered that he starts lashing out, *he would probably use a tactical nuclear strike* in Ukraine.

Can't believe I am writing this.
The concept that 'tactical limited nuclear strike' could happen has made the MAD concept much much more dangerous. At least in Ye Olde Days when I used to march in demos in the 70s, marched to Molesworth and spent time at Greenham Common to try and make people realise MAD was just a very dangerous illusion- and that it would only work until one or more MAD men got involved- the MAD concept was clear. Smaller tactical weapons have made the illusion much much more dangerous.

What do you think would happen in Putin did, as you say above?
Reply With Quote
  #3187  
Old 27.02.2022, 15:51
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,661
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,535 Times in 4,123 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Ahem. I am quite sure it is the Commander in Chief who can order DEFCON. And we are far from a MAD scenario. If Putin feels so cornered that he starts lashing out, he would probably use a tactical nuclear strike in Ukraine.

Can't believe I am writing this.
Sure, and he can order to stand down. It´s just that MAD is a step for step escalation and Biden will HAVE to step in to de escalate if the wheels are set in motion.
Reply With Quote
  #3188  
Old 27.02.2022, 15:54
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Zurich
Posts: 411
Groaned at 83 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 275 Times in 154 Posts
Dandy is considered unworthyDandy is considered unworthyDandy is considered unworthy
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Have you got an independent source?

If they want to use it as a pretence, it does not matter whether true or false. In war the truth dies first.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Dandy for this post:
  #3189  
Old 27.02.2022, 15:55
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 18,437
Groaned at 821 Times in 640 Posts
Thanked 28,607 Times in 11,564 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Russian MoD: Ukraine's Forces Use Banned Phosphorus Munitions Outside Kiev

https://sputniknews.com/20220227/rus...093422868.html


Will they use this as a pretence to use nuclear weapons?
Russian news outlet reported the same thing in 2014 and it was fake then.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/06/20/...e-lies-or-what
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #3190  
Old 27.02.2022, 15:57
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 1,282
Groaned at 235 Times in 170 Posts
Thanked 4,613 Times in 1,745 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Bank runs in Russia as people flock to withdraw cash ASAP . Excellent news! In a way, this is probably the most that people can actually do in terms of protest: showing their lack of confidence in Putin.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
  #3191  
Old 27.02.2022, 15:58
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,661
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,535 Times in 4,123 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Russian MoD: Ukraine's Forces Use Banned Phosphorus Munitions Outside Kiev

https://sputniknews.com/20220227/rus...093422868.html


Will they use this as a pretence to use nuclear weapons?
Not all uses of Willy Pete are banned, only.. "Only" using it´s chemical properties as a weapon are banned. Using WP as a smoke generator to hide is common.
So it could be that the UA have deployed it as for cover, more context is needed.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank slammer for this useful post:
  #3192  
Old 27.02.2022, 16:04
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 4,089
Groaned at 399 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 8,790 Times in 3,758 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
What do you think would happen in Putin did, as you say above?
Good question. I think the West will not go nuclear if Putin drops a "small" tactical bomb outside of NATO. If he does that, people will realize there is no stopping him from going further. So the long game is regime change in Russia, even if it means waiting for Putin to die.

One big question is whether this might make China come around. Or of course would see this as an opportunity to take Taiwan. I am somewhat optimistic that in this scenario the Chinese would start siding with the West. But maybe that is naive.

Quote:
View Post
Sure, and he can order to stand down. It´s just that MAD is a step for step escalation and Biden will HAVE to step in to de escalate if the wheels are set in motion.
I think Biden is smart enough to understand that he needs to take decisions carefully, and the worst would be to fall into automatic escalation.

The problem with Putin is not that he is insane. I think he is rational within his world. The problem is that there is no team there making decisions. He doesn't get to hear different perspectives. There is no party system. There is no Politburo type of around the table discussions. He only listens to himself.


I need to go out and get some sun and air.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #3193  
Old 27.02.2022, 16:05
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,381
Groaned at 721 Times in 605 Posts
Thanked 24,090 Times in 12,615 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Aaaand America puts it´s nuclear forces on high alert, Russia responds by alerting even higher, and the US ramps it up a notch. Russia goes to gas mark 11...

Are we really going to slide into a nuke war?
So far does not look like the US will upgrade its readiness.

"White House press secretary Jen Psaki said Sunday that Russian President Vladimir Putin's decision to put Russia's nuclear forces on high alert are part of a wider pattern of unprovoked escalation and "manufactured threats" from the Kremlin."

While the US has enough nuclear armed submarines scattered around the world then that is probably adequate.
Reply With Quote
  #3194  
Old 27.02.2022, 16:06
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 800
Groaned at 109 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,108 Times in 550 Posts
vladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
I admit I laughed at this risk a week ago. The bizarre thing is that the better UA is doing in its fight, the higher the escalation risk becomes. This is based on the assumption that Putin is not the type to cut his losses. If he is, then this becomes much better.
the problem is even if west will giveup UA now, the situation will be repeated later with Poland or Latvia or Lithuania or Estonia
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank vladest for this useful post:
  #3195  
Old 27.02.2022, 16:09
TinyK's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Left bank of Lake Zurich
Posts: 1,444
Groaned at 66 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,577 Times in 797 Posts
TinyK has a reputation beyond reputeTinyK has a reputation beyond reputeTinyK has a reputation beyond reputeTinyK has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Putin is furious because his 3rd strong army in the world appeared to be a gang of scared youngsters in rust buckets with no food and no fuel. I hope the videos with captives are translated in English and shown in the whole world. Also one of the Chechen brigade refused to go to Ukraine and the other one stayed forever on the streets of Butcha near Kyiv. There is a hilarious audio of the radio exchange between Russians in the forest: "We don't know where we are, we lost everything, please take us away from here". The liberators, my ass. Get back to your mothers and never return.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank TinyK for this useful post:
  #3196  
Old 27.02.2022, 16:10
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kt.Zh
Posts: 12,166
Groaned at 487 Times in 402 Posts
Thanked 19,073 Times in 9,648 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Have you got an independent source?

Quote:
View Post
Russian news outlet reported the same thing in 2014 and it was fake then.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/06/20/...e-lies-or-what
Sputnik and the likes should be simply banned in Europe.

And it's quoted here.....
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #3197  
Old 27.02.2022, 16:11
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 4,089
Groaned at 399 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 8,790 Times in 3,758 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
the problem is even if west will giveup UA now, the situation will be repeated later with Poland or Latvia or Lithuania or Estonia
I agree. And this will be then the real test if NATO Article 5 is worth anything. As Tom Nichols put it some days ago, "Putin will say let's see about that when the bullets fly".

But we are in a new era. We crossed the Rubicon. And I am afraid this will only end when Putin is dead.
Reply With Quote
  #3198  
Old 27.02.2022, 16:11
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,661
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,535 Times in 4,123 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
the problem is even if west will giveup UA now, the situation will be repeated later with Poland or Latvia or Lithuania or Estonia
No, because these are direct nato states.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank slammer for this useful post:
  #3199  
Old 27.02.2022, 16:12
TinyK's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Left bank of Lake Zurich
Posts: 1,444
Groaned at 66 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,577 Times in 797 Posts
TinyK has a reputation beyond reputeTinyK has a reputation beyond reputeTinyK has a reputation beyond reputeTinyK has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
the problem is even if west will giveup UA now, the situation will be repeated later with Poland or Latvia or Lithuania or Estonia
As our ex-President Poroshenko says you should not give in to Putin even in the smallest. Otherwise he will take everything. He only knows the position of power.

Funny, I always thought about myself as a citizen of the poor 3rd world country. These days I'm so proud that I was born Ukrainian! Glory to Ukraine!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank TinyK for this useful post:
  #3200  
Old 27.02.2022, 16:15
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 800
Groaned at 109 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,108 Times in 550 Posts
vladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
I agree. And this will be then the real test if NATO Article 5 is worth anything. As Tom Nichols put it some days ago, "Putin will say let's see about that when the bullets fly".

But we are in a new era. We crossed the Rubicon. And I am afraid this will only end when Putin is dead.
there will be another putin
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank vladest for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
crimea, russia, ukraine




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (1 members and 1 guests)
TinyK
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jewish Refugees in Switzerland during World War II zanskar International affairs/politics 48 16.06.2010 15:58
Book about Switzerland in the second world war [recommendation?] telandy Other/general 14 18.06.2007 20:15


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0