World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? - Page 171

jacek · #**3401** 01.03.2022, 09:20

Convoy 40 miles long with no routes to escape reminds about being stuck in a traffic jam without exit routes. The biggest snake can be cut in few places and it’s head chopped off.

gaburko · #**3402** 01.03.2022, 09:27

	Quote:	vladest
	nato will provide intel data for sure

intel is provided, it's public now. You can see hi-res photos on every major news site, the Russians are not even trying to hide it (and you can't really hide it anyway)

	Quote:	vladest
	i would not worry much about the convoy. remember helicopters breakthru near Kyiv with ru descent? They was passed by purpose. The landing was full of mines. When mines did its job, the rest was covered with artillery

I see your point. And yet, it's the US and UK generals and military analysts who are worried about it, I believe they tend to know better than me, for sure.

John William · #**3403** 01.03.2022, 09:47

	Quote:	Chuff
	I would say there is close to zero chance of the West backing off until Putin ceases his attack and retreats. Even when he does that and things de-escalate, the sanctions and pressure will stay for a while. Putin crossed a huge line in the sand this time and Russia is going to pay for that for decades. EDIT - Also I think Putin will be gone within a year or two, because significant public and political sentiment will be against him at home and and overwhelming diplomatic sentiment against him abroad. I think that the decision will be made by many powerful people within Russia that the only way the country can hope to recover from this crisis is with new and more moderate leadership that can slowly make reparations with the world. In my ideal fantasy outcome, Navalny will be released from prison and elected into power to take Russia out of the dark ages. However, that may be far too much to hope for.

Whenever Putin goes, the biggest obstacle to overcome is for Russia to shake off 'the Police state' it's citizens are living under
as you wouldn't want whoever replaces Putin to simply call on the FSB to impose their undemocratic will on the people again.

A peoples power storming of the Lubyanka just like the East Germans did when they stormed the Stasi HQ in East Berlin would be best.

TinyK · #**3404** 01.03.2022, 10:16

What will these kids think about strong historic connections between Russian and Ukrainian folks when (and if) they grow up?

TinyK · #**3405** 01.03.2022, 10:21

Ukrainians
Russians
Spot the difference.

vladest · #**3406** 01.03.2022, 10:22

	Quote:	gaburko
	intel is provided, it's public now. You can see hi-res photos on every major news site, the Russians are not even trying to hide it (and you can't really hide it anyway)

it important how realtime and how precise the data is

marton · #**3407** 01.03.2022, 10:26

An interesting view
"“Assuming 150,000 Russian soldiers in Ukraine and a population of 44 million, that is a force ratio of 3.4 soldiers per 1,000 people. You can’t hold territory with those numbers,” Seth Jones, vice president of the Center for Strategic and International Studies said.

Jones said successful occupations had force ratios that were “astronomically higher.”

For example, he said:

The Allied forces occupying Germany in 1945 had 89.3 troops to 1,000 inhabitants.
NATO forces in Bosnia in 1995 had 17.5 troops to 1,000 inhabitants.
NATO forces in Kosovo in 2000 had 19.3 to 1,000.
And international forces in East Timor in 2000 had 9.8 to 1,000."

So far as I can figure out, in Crimea the ratio is 11 to 1,000.

vushka · #**3408** 01.03.2022, 10:27

snake island: ukranian troops surrendered, all alive
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60522454

gaburko · #**3409** 01.03.2022, 10:29

	Quote:	vladest
	it important how realtime and how precise the data is

You didn't understand my point. The US has a Global Hawk in the area and satellite images feeding the Ukrainians with intel. Yet, for probably 3 days, 2 for sure, the Ukrainians were unable to target the convoy. This suggests that they have now air superiority and feel safe.

In related news, the supposed Kiev Ghost ace has been killed in action

John William · #**3410** 01.03.2022, 10:30

Well if the end is nigh and we find ourselves on the cusp of Armageddon. At least British survivors will be able to take comfort in the knowledge that the BBC will provide succor with many nostalgic repeats of The Goon Show & Just a Minute.

Mail Online says we can enjoy endless repeats of The Goon Show & Just a Minute come the end of the world

marton · #**3411** 01.03.2022, 10:37

The presidents of Estonia, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, and Slovenia published an open letter on Monday urging the European Union (EU) to immediately grant Ukraine candidate country status and begin negotiations on its formal acceptance into the bloc.

Mastercard has issued a ban on Russian institutions, not clear exactly what this means.

International Skating Union is banning Russian and Belarus skaters from competitions.

robBob · #**3412** 01.03.2022, 11:03

No comment
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...?ocid=msedgntp

bowlie · #**3413** 01.03.2022, 11:10

	Quote:	jacek
	Convoy 40 miles long with no routes to escape reminds about being stuck in a traffic jam without exit routes. The biggest snake can be cut in few places and it’s head chopped off.

A convoy 40kms long is going to need fuel, a lot of fuel. No doubts there are tankers as well, which should be the Ukrainian’s targets. Even rifle fire can be effective against these and could stop a tank just like a ATW.

magic · #**3414** 01.03.2022, 11:17

	Quote:	robBob
	No comment https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...?ocid=msedgntp

Incredibly sad

jacek · #**3415** 01.03.2022, 11:35

	Quote:	magic
	Incredibly sad

Depressing. This insane campaign should be ceased before even more lives are lost.

When my wife talked to her Ukrainian client yesterday, the lady told her that this war has been ongoing for past 8 years already.

slammer · #**3416** 01.03.2022, 12:16

The EU has supplied UA with up to 70 aircraft. In my opinion, with all the hardware and intel nato is supplying to Ukraine, I would say that nato is de-facto at war with Russia. All that is missing is nato soldiers in UA.

komsomolez · #**3417** 01.03.2022, 12:19

	Quote:	slammer
	The EU has supplied UA with up to 70 aircraft. In my opinion, with all the hardware and intel nato is supplying to Ukraine, I would say that nato is de-facto at war with Russia. All that is missing is nato soldiers in UA.

Which is a huge difference for all what the Cold War history matters. There have been plenty of proxy wars where one side openly supplied weapons.

But yes, Putin will spin it that way.

marton · #**3418** 01.03.2022, 12:35

	Quote:	jacek
	Convoy 40 miles long with no routes to escape reminds about being stuck in a traffic jam without exit routes. The biggest snake can be cut in few places and it’s head chopped off.

Such a convoy will be heavily protected by helicopters and aircraft, sadly not such a good target.
When the convoy breaks up into smaller units it may become vulnerable.

Now many reports of the Russians targeting civilian areas, awful.

bowlie · #**3419** 01.03.2022, 12:36

	Quote:	slammer
	The EU has supplied UA with up to 70 aircraft. In my opinion, with all the hardware and intel nato is supplying to Ukraine, I would say that nato is de-facto at war with Russia. All that is missing is nato soldiers in UA.

Really? 70 aircraft? For use by Ukrainian forces? Or flown by, and supported by, NATO forces from their own countries.

Sorry, I find this very hard to believe. Can you provide a source?

Tom1234 · #**3420** 01.03.2022, 12:46

	Quote:	bowlie
	Really? 70 aircraft? For use by Ukrainian forces? Or flown by, and supported by, NATO forces from their own countries. Sorry, I find this very hard to believe. Can you provide a source?

Could it have been that people have mixed up their headlines?

The Telegraph mentions "No fighter jets from NATO" and "70 Ukrainian soldiers killed....." in the same headline.