 | | | 
04.03.2022, 16:04
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SZ
Posts: 3,988
Groaned at 381 Times in 271 Posts
Thanked 8,466 Times in 3,608 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I wonder this too, a nuclear escalation will affect us all but personally I am ok with that risk to stop this madness, because a world that appeases a despot like Putin is not worth preserving. | | | | | So you are proposing nuclear escalation to stop the madness? How very smart.
| The following 3 users would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post: | | 
04.03.2022, 16:09
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: ZH
Posts: 2,153
Groaned at 39 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 4,283 Times in 1,721 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I wonder this too, a nuclear escalation will affect us all but personally I am ok with that risk to stop this madness, because a world that appeases a despot like Putin is not worth preserving. | | | | | The world is worth preserving, if it's between no world and a world with Putin, I'll take the evil option as it's the only one.
| This user would like to thank Ato for this useful post: | | 
04.03.2022, 16:13
|  | Moderately Dutch | | Join Date: May 2011 Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,602
Groaned at 400 Times in 337 Posts
Thanked 16,924 Times in 7,722 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I wonder this too, a nuclear escalation will affect us all but personally I am ok with that risk to stop this madness, because a world that appeases a despot like Putin is not worth preserving. | | | | | And you also have any brilliant ideas on where that bomb should land? YOu really think that upon sending one bomb to Moskou it will all stop?
Oh dear.............................................. ..
| This user would like to thank roegner for this useful post: | | 
04.03.2022, 16:16
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 4,516
Groaned at 643 Times in 443 Posts
Thanked 4,476 Times in 2,362 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | So you are proposing nuclear escalation to stop the madness? How very smart. | | | | | That should have been done 50 years ago. Many of us tried to make others understand the sheer madness of MAD and nuclear proliferation. It's too late now. And as predicted then- the world will now forever be blackmailed into submission, as NATO is now- by any mad psychopath with access to nuclear weapons.
| 
04.03.2022, 16:16
|  | Modulo 2 | | Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,001
Groaned at 340 Times in 293 Posts
Thanked 25,209 Times in 10,257 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Russian friends (in Russia, somewhere) report many shops are closed and those that are open are missing many items from their shelves.
There are rumours that martial law will be imposed.
| The following 4 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post: | | 
04.03.2022, 16:16
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Zurich
Posts: 14,148
Groaned at 1,418 Times in 940 Posts
Thanked 21,384 Times in 8,170 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Guys, just be thankful that the technology to extend life is still unachievable, because if the world has not sorted out its stability issues by the time we can cure all illnesses and people (ie: the elite) can extend their lives to 150+ years then we are truly screwed.
Just imagine, Putins and other strongmen that live extra decades in perfect health. *shudders* | The following 2 users would like to thank Chuff for this useful post: | | 
04.03.2022, 16:21
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,041
Groaned at 37 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 949 Times in 493 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Wow. What a sinister character. 
He should tell that to a babushka that lives in a village in Siberia and has the equivalent of 40 chf pension. | | | | | The only problem - the babushka will believe him. 😔
| The following 3 users would like to thank Aleydis for this useful post: | | 
04.03.2022, 16:32
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: BL
Posts: 1,181
Groaned at 210 Times in 152 Posts
Thanked 4,237 Times in 1,563 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | The only problem - the babushka will believe him. 😔 | | | | | My grandparents, until they were alive tended to vote for the socialists because old people in the East vote for the times when they were young and happy. No amount of argumentation is going to change that, it's natural death unfortunately that we had to go through in Eastern Europe to see the former communists parties move from winning elections to being relatively marginal players. In Russia there's simply no alternative whatsoever, even Russians sometimes fail to tell me which party Putin belongs to (United Russia) as this is largely irrelevant.
| The following 2 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post: | | 
04.03.2022, 16:36
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 18,233
Groaned at 794 Times in 621 Posts
Thanked 28,248 Times in 11,401 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | My grandparents, until they were alive tended to vote for the socialists because old people in the East vote for the times when they were young and happy. | | | | | I had a few socialists in my family going back some time. However, they were definitely of the ruling-class, champagne socialist type.
There is no such thing as true socialism - it would never work because of people's greed for power and money.
| The following 3 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post: | | 
04.03.2022, 16:37
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SZ
Posts: 3,988
Groaned at 381 Times in 271 Posts
Thanked 8,466 Times in 3,608 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | That should have been done 50 years ago. Many of us tried to make others understand the sheer madness of MAD and nuclear proliferation. It's too late now. And as predicted then- the world will now forever be blackmailed into submission, as NATO is now- by any mad psychopath with access to nuclear weapons. | | | | | That is a very naive way to look at things.
50 years ago was 1972. That is ten years after the US had adopted its defense doctrine to what is called "flexible response". And how is NATO "blackmailed into submission"? NATO borders are the red line, and "flexible response" also works here. If attacked, there would be first conventional defense. If conventional defense would be not strong enough, tactical nuclear response. Only in a final escalation, full out nuclear war i.e. MAD.
If your point is that nuclear weapons are bad, I agree. Let's just not pretend any nuclear situation would automatically mean MAD. But Russia is making again the perfect case for mid sized countries to acquire nukes. Like Russia is also making the perfect case for anyone to seek NATO membership.
Now, bringing this back OT, I saw a headline flying by this morning (or just a tweet?) that apparently the US DOD had confirmed they had (re)installed some direct line to the Russian MOD for the event of escalation. That sounded promising, but I have not seen this confirmed.
Edit: Back channel established https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/rus...NlEcA2SE6kCwHO
Last edited by komsomolez; 04.03.2022 at 16:56.
| 
04.03.2022, 16:41
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,997
Groaned at 393 Times in 270 Posts
Thanked 13,678 Times in 4,690 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I wonder this too, a nuclear escalation will affect us all but personally I am ok with that risk to stop this madness, because a world that appeases a despot like Putin is not worth preserving. | | | | | That's a great idea: destroy Putin and the planet. That'll make things much better...
| The following 2 users would like to thank AbFab for this useful post: | | This user groans at AbFab for this post: | | 
04.03.2022, 16:43
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,041
Groaned at 37 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 949 Times in 493 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
A situation in a very good friend's family (in Krasnoyarsk, upper middle class)
Her mother: unconditional support for Putin
Her father: trying to make sense of it all
She: driving around buying up medication for her mother
Her sister: trying to convince mother to hear different sides of the story
Her brother-in-law: it's all the Americans' fault
A good friend of hers cannot leave Kiev because her mother cannot walk, not even as far as the shelter, is trying to help abandoned pets. Her sister, in turn, in Russia, does not believe that Kiev is being bombed.
Just hoping that Russia does not ban WhatsApp, Telegram at some point...
__________________
If you are going through hell, just keep going.
| The following 11 users would like to thank Aleydis for this useful post: | AbFab, Blueangel, gaburko, greenmount, jacek, JackieH, komsomolez, marton, Reb77Br, Tasebo, Tom1234 | 
04.03.2022, 17:14
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SZ
Posts: 3,988
Groaned at 381 Times in 271 Posts
Thanked 8,466 Times in 3,608 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
We talked some pages ago about a religious component of this. The National Review have seen this and produced a timely article:
In Some Ways, This Is a Religious War
By JIM GERAGHTY https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...religious-war/ | This user would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post: | | 
04.03.2022, 17:42
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SG
Posts: 10,588
Groaned at 650 Times in 471 Posts
Thanked 14,358 Times in 7,500 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | This is an interesting article: "Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine."
For years, the political scientist has claimed that Putin’s aggression toward Ukraine is caused by Western intervention. Have recent events changed his mind? https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and...sis-in-ukraine | | | | | This pretty much matches what former Secretary of State, and later security advisor, Henry Kissinger said 8 years ago, and probably far earlier. | Quote: | |  | | | That's how TikTok videos from Ukrainian kids look like these days. The girl who survived shelling if the school in Chernigiv recorded video for her Russian friends: | | | | | That "patch" on her right index finger looks very much like fake skin that should cover the finger but has loosened and slid back. With that amount of "blood" in her face her hair should be covered with it, too, and formed blood-clotted strands. And she behaves as if nothing happened, she's even stroking her hair as is so common nowadays - not what might be expected when in shock.
Careful with the clips you trust.
@Axa, what happens March 22?
| The following 2 users groan at Urs Max for this post: | | 
04.03.2022, 18:08
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,130
Groaned at 80 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 4,414 Times in 2,377 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Careful with the clips you trust.
| | | | | I thought TikTok hat skipped the pretense of "information" that accompanied twitter (and Youtube) for a while and went straight to "entertainment"?
The old adage "In war, the first casualty is always truth" applies here, too.
Both sides have an equal reason for being "economic" with the truth - both for their own very understandable reasons.
| The following 2 users would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post: | | 
04.03.2022, 18:15
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,041
Groaned at 37 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 949 Times in 493 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | For me the credibility of the author ends with the last sentence of the second paragraph.
This is not to argue that the Russian Orthodox Church was not made a quasi-official state religion. However, the Patriarch has been rather reluctant to state the Church's support for Putin (this time) - something that may indicate divisions within the Church itself. Bombing Kiev does not really fit into its "traditional" values.
| 
04.03.2022, 18:21
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 5,303
Groaned at 103 Times in 94 Posts
Thanked 7,752 Times in 3,641 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | @Axa, what happens March 22? | | | | | Not sure if 22 or 28 but it's the deadline to enforce the EU sanctions, maybe mixing with USA sanctions.
Anyway, the sanctions announcement in the past days was just the notification to business that the rules are changing. Business have to do internal control to find out troubled contracts. Then, end them or initiate the steps to end them by the deadline. All this takes time, that's why the 1 month deadline.
What happened last week was only equities, bonds and stuff like that. Slower processes like food and industrial supply chains takes time.
| This user would like to thank Axa for this useful post: | | 
04.03.2022, 18:31
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SG
Posts: 10,588
Groaned at 650 Times in 471 Posts
Thanked 14,358 Times in 7,500 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I thought TikTok hat skipped the pretense of "information" that accompanied twitter (and Youtube) for a while and went straight to "entertainment"? | | | | | I wouldn't take Tiktok to be anything other than entertainment, all the time, with or without war.
However TinyK disagrees with "the girl who survived shelling of the school". Reportedly a Kindergarten got clusterbombed in Chernihiv, with at least two people killed.
| 
04.03.2022, 18:32
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SZ
Posts: 3,988
Groaned at 381 Times in 271 Posts
Thanked 8,466 Times in 3,608 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | For me the credibility of the author ends with the last sentence of the second paragraph.
This is not to argue that the Russian Orthodox Church was not made a quasi-official state religion. However, the Patriarch has been rather reluctant to state the Church's support for Putin (this time) - something that may indicate divisions within the Church itself. Bombing Kiev does not really fit into its "traditional" values. | | | | | I honestly don't know, but I think this might be an misunderstood or ignored aspect of what drives Putin. As I mentioned before, there are US national security people who have talked about rumors that Putin is influenced by the extremist elements of the Church.
SRF radio just had a piece about how ordinary Russians feels about the "special operation" and the sanctions. If their Moscow guy (who apparently has left Moscow now) has any clue, then forget about any chance of there being a uprising in the streets. He said the people opposing the "operation" would be a small minority.
| This user would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post: | | 
04.03.2022, 18:35
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SZ
Posts: 3,988
Groaned at 381 Times in 271 Posts
Thanked 8,466 Times in 3,608 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Not sure if 22 or 28 but it's the deadline to enforce the EU sanctions, maybe mixing with USA sanctions.
Anyway, the sanctions announcement in the past days was just the notification to business that the rules are changing. Business have to do internal control to find out troubled contracts. Then, end them or initiate the steps to end them by the deadline. All this takes time, that's why the 1 month deadline.
What happened last week was only equities, bonds and stuff like that. Slower processes like food and industrial supply chains takes time. | | | | | Yes and no. We have quite an operation in Russia and see already massive impacts. Suppliers won't deliver to Russia as they fear they will not get paid. Customers in Europe are not accepting shipments with any Russian content.
| This user would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post: | |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:12. | |