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  #3781  
Old 05.03.2022, 06:09
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Brilliant trolling of Russia by Lithuania

Lithuanian capital to change Russian embassy address to Heroes of Ukraine street
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  #3782  
Old 05.03.2022, 06:10
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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There is no certainty Putin would use nukes if the EU and US weighed in to defend Ukraine or established a no-fly zone.
I have to agree with this and I think the EU is really allowing the thought of nuclear responses or full global escalation, despite it not being likely in this kind of engagement, to allow them to stop Ukraine from being destroyed and Ukrainians from being slaughtered.

Sanctions are good for the longer-term, but they don't do anything about the immediate threat. The EU have watched this while engaging in too much discussing, too much hand-wringing, too much hesitation, they should have established a no-fly zone or even put some defensive units around major Ukranian cities.

I really think the EU will look back in shame at not taking more direct military action to protect Ukraine. I am following all this closely and I just feel powerless, angry and resentful when I check the news every morning and see the increased devastation wrought on Ukraine. Sure we can send aid and supplies to refugees, but we need to stop people dying.

**** the Russian government, **** Putin.

Last edited by Chuff; 05.03.2022 at 09:47. Reason: Clarifiction
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  #3783  
Old 05.03.2022, 06:16
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Well, we'll use Putins logic. This is a special financial aid operation and we're liberating Russia
The Russians who have access only to Russian media believe those poor soldiers were sent there to liberate Ukraine. Watch la language, it is the same narrative since Stalin.

But I cannot say I am surprised, not really, considering that historians who study Stalinism's crimes for instance and conclude different things than the official doctrine still end up in prison in today Russia.

Ukrainians are "nazis" but Putin and the clique are for years and years good friends with all the far-right parties of Europe, and that is documented and well known
https://www.jstor.org/stable/43555253
and simple people are told Ukraine is liberated from the nazis. It is beyond ridiculous, it is criminal.
The really weird part is that ethnic Russians living in Ukraine have tried to describe the reality to their relatives in Russia and they were never believed."Mom, they destroyed the city, they are bombing civilian objectives" "No, you are exaggerating, you are fooled by Western propaganda".....it is exactly as if we were during the WW II. In the internet and smart phones era...it is dystopian. Post-truth era has a whole different meaning now.
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  #3784  
Old 05.03.2022, 06:26
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Ukrainians are "nazis" but Putin and the clique are for years and years good friends with all the far-right parties of Europe
Yes, and it goes beyond that. This is Dmitry Utkin, the founder of the Wagner group, Putin's private army. You can't even make up this thing.


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  #3785  
Old 05.03.2022, 06:49
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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**** the Russian government, **** Putin.
I am glad we finally agree, Chuff.
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  #3786  
Old 05.03.2022, 07:01
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Ukrainians are "nazis" but Putin and the clique are for years and years good friends with all the far-right parties of Europe, and that is documented and well known
https://www.jstor.org/stable/43555253
and simple people are told Ukraine is liberated from the nazis. It is beyond ridiculous, it is criminal.
Ukranians are not nazis, but it does seem problematic that they are the only country which has or allows an openly far-right/neo-Nazi military unit in their ranks.
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  #3787  
Old 05.03.2022, 07:05
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Yes, and it goes beyond that. This is Dmitry Utkin, the founder of the Wagner group, Putin's private army. You can't even make up this thing.



Yes, you can't make this up.
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  #3788  
Old 05.03.2022, 07:23
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Could this be a sign that they've also stopped his internet connection and the generals and Lavrov are feeding him lies?
Putin never used Internet in his life.
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  #3789  
Old 05.03.2022, 07:29
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

.
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  #3790  
Old 05.03.2022, 07:36
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Very good article here by The Guardian summarizing what impact this war has had on The West:

The week where decades happened: how the west finally woke up to Putin https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...vladimir-putin

I real media from all sides of the fence and imo The Guardian really is overall among the very best and most meaningful that journalism in this world has to offer.
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  #3791  
Old 05.03.2022, 08:28
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Brilliant trolling of Russia by Lithuania

Lithuanian capital to change Russian embassy address to Heroes of Ukraine street
"Mail will only be delivered to the embassy if addressed to the new street"

Tom
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  #3792  
Old 05.03.2022, 08:55
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Sanctions are not just starting to hurt Russia. Filled the bike up yesterday and paid 2.05,99 Euro. Somehow I don┤t think that we have reached the end of that flagpole.
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  #3793  
Old 05.03.2022, 08:55
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I have to agree with this and I think the EU is really allowing the thought of nuclear responses, despite it not being likely in this kind of engagement, to allow them to stop Ukraine from being destroyed and Ukrainians from being slaughtered.

Sanctions are good for the longer-term, but they don't do anything about the immediate threat. The EU have watched this while engaging in too much discussing, too much hand-wringing, too much hesitation, they should have established a no-fly zone or even put some defensive units around major Ukranian cities.

I really think the EU will look back in shame at not taking more direct military action to protect Ukraine. I am following all this closely and I just feel powerless, angry and resentful when I check the news every morning and see the increased devastation wrought on Ukraine. Sure we can send aid and supplies to refugees, but we need to stop people dying.

**** the Russian government, **** Putin.
I understand the temptation. But this is still a very bad idea, and I am glad that NATO has clarified yesterday that there will be no no-fly zone or anything like that.
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  #3794  
Old 05.03.2022, 09:00
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Sanctions are not just starting to hurt Russia. Filled the bike up yesterday and paid 2.05,99 Euro.
Comedy gold.

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I understand the temptation. But this is still a very bad idea.
Why, do you think it would lead directly to strategic nukes?
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  #3795  
Old 05.03.2022, 09:04
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Sanctions are good for the longer-term, but they don't do anything about the immediate threat. The EU have watched this while engaging in too much discussing, too much hand-wringing, too much hesitation, they should have established a no-fly zone or even put some defensive units around major Ukranian cities.
Even economic sanctions could still have been much more severe. This article for example says that French companies, the biggest foreign employer in Russia, are not stopping their activities there and are not even encouraged to do so by the French authorities. I'm afraid this is not just French "problem".

24 Heures: Les groupes franšais peu pressÚs de quitter la Russie
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  #3796  
Old 05.03.2022, 09:16
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I understand the temptation. But this is still a very bad idea, and I am glad that NATO has clarified yesterday that there will be no no-fly zone or anything like that.
yes, UA not in Nato, so Nato should not provide anything like that for UA
so most probably the issue will be solved as a deal between private companies like it was done in case of Bayrktars
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  #3797  
Old 05.03.2022, 09:26
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Why, do you think it would lead directly to strategic nukes?
Not necessarily. It will force NATO to shoot down Russian planes, and probably to take out Russian artillery. Unless NATO would go for a full blown attack on Russian forces in UA (which could end up with Russia going tactical nuclear), the Russian shelling of UA cities in the East and South will continue regardless. A NATO intervention would probably lead to a rally around the flag in Russia, motivate the Russian forces, eliminate any remote chance of a coup and probably bring China firmly on Russia's side.
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  #3798  
Old 05.03.2022, 09:31
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Sanctions are not just starting to hurt Russia. Filled the bike up yesterday and paid 2.05,99 Euro. Somehow I don┤t think that we have reached the end of that flagpole.
Could you share how much of it is the oil price, and how much the taxes in Germany?
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  #3799  
Old 05.03.2022, 09:31
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Yes, and it goes beyond that. This is Dmitry Utkin, the founder of the Wagner group, Putin's private army. You can't even make up this thing.


He seems nice.
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  #3800  
Old 05.03.2022, 09:35
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Not necessarily. It will force NATO to shoot down Russian planes, and probably to take out Russian artillery. Unless NATO would go for a full blown attack on Russian forces in UA (which could end up with Russia going tactical nuclear), the Russian shelling of UA cities in the East and South will continue regardless. A NATO intervention would probably lead to a rally around the flag in Russia, motivate the Russian forces, eliminate any remote chance of a coup and probably bring China firmly on Russia's side.
I am honestly not convinced that China wants any of this over something as insignificant to them as Ukraine. The EU is heavily invested in the Chinese economy and vice versa but if the EU really had the will, it could, with difficulty and disruption of course, disentangle itself from that and set up more manufacturing in Europe as well as transfer things to elsewhere in the world such as Mexico which is getting increasingly competitive vs China. Chinas huge population is extremely susceptible to economic downturn and a government can quickly spend a crapton of money supporting those gazillions of people if jobs are lost. Who else is it going to depend on to help out if things with the EU go South... Russia, who now have a rapidly tanking economy and who are now facing even more long-term sanctions? China may end up having to support Russia financially which will strengthen their hold over Russia and turn the balance of power in that relationship even more in their favour, but it will also weaken them at the same time if they have to face sanctions and declining influence themselves.

In the end this is just my armchair opinion and I could be wrong, but I would be really surprised if China risked alienating the Western world by joining Putin on his suicide mission to obliterate Ukraine. At some point I think the EU has to step in if diplomacy fails, and if they leave it too late to intervene then there will be little left of Ukraine to save and an independent Ukraine, with all of its close ties to Europe, will be a shameful footnote in history.
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