Can you blame them? Barring a complete withdrawal from Ukraine, Russia will continue to suffer massive sanctions for the foreseeable future. Intelligent and non-brainwashed Russians are aware that the worst is yet to come.

When I was in Russia last summer, I went to the drug store to get medicine and was surprised to see a long line of old ladies (babushkas) there. While waiting for my turn, I learned that Putin has granted 10K rubles to each Russian pensioner, as the gift from the government. This was about CHF125 back then. These people were given CHF125 and rushed to buy medicine. This is the living standard of millions of Russian people, and not only pensioners but also the working people like teachers, single moms, parents of sick kids who need expensive drugs or treatment abroad. No, Russia doesn’t pay for its sick kids to get the life-saving treatment abroad, and the parents have to ask for money online and hope to collect enough.

When I read that Zara, Nespresso and Lindt stopped working in Russia, I can assure you that most of the Russian people cannot afford them anyway. These huge queues to the western shops — they are the minority and definitely will be inconvenienced by the sanctions but they will survive. The real victims will be those who never even shop in Zara. These sanctions will silently kill the most vulnerable, and Putin will not give a f*** .

I toured Russia rather extensively in the nineties and up to 2010 and always felt that there was a sense of optimism, the so-called "peace dividend" seemed to be bringing a lot of Russians into a middle class bracket and the people expected a Russian "Wirtschaftswunder" It was a good time to be in Russia.

That economic growth was largely fueled by recovery of oil and gas prices.
And, if anything, it wasn't a "peace dividend" but freedom dividend. Before, the economy was in a state straight jacket like in DDR.

Still, the optimism was tangible, things were looking up and you could sense the feeling of freedom going around.

Yes, Mariupol under siege is not fake news, it is an undeniable fact, how it is reported afterwards can or cannot be fake news.How it is reported and the various reports we read some of these are fake news, exaggerated, enhanced or just "forward thinking" (read made up or lies)


It is impossible to sort the chaff from the wheat in these days of absolutely everybody being connected and offering opinions, you need to read reports from people you trust and several different sources in order to draw a conclusion that fits the facts you have available.

Which news about Mariupol do you think are exaggerated? I am genuinely curious.

i wonder how much the average European/American is willing to suffer to keep those sanctions in place though?

Now THAT is a good question. I´m betting as far as propaganda can push it I suppose. It will be a while yet, supermarkets are still full, no shortages, medicine is still to be had, fuel is expensive but not unaffordable. We have electricity, Netflix, beer and I don´t think that the idea of the rich being a little bit poorer will give me sleepless nights.

I'm happy to pay twice, three, four times as much for fuel, and to take a significant price increase to most goods to support liberty and freedom in Ukraine (I have to put my wallet where my mouth is, as I b!tched to no end when nobody lifted a finger when they occupied Crimea). I can understand though that I am privileged not to have to live check-to-check as probably many people in Europe do.

'Suffer' is relative, and whatever we may deem to be 'our suffering', is nothing compared to that of the people of Ukraine.

No that´s the point of Vushka´s post I think, most here are enough well off to weather the outcome of sanctions. For somebody on HarzIV, or any other basic income schemes any change will squeeze them beyond the point of coping.

Nothing could be done until now, red lines are now being crossed. Normal Russian people are suffering too, they will soon rise-up, there are also opposition leaders jailed in Russia, no freedom of speech, lack of money, soon no food. Good Russians will not accept this much longer as it actually has been many years with Pussy riot jailed, Salisbury assassination attempts, etc.

I hate war but my mind is telling me that WW3 considering the above, might only last a year at most.

If our politicians especially the US, were stupid enough to allow Russia all these nuclear weapons then it’s up to them to calculate if Russia will actually use them. Time to go in….

Aaaaand the US would have stopped them how?
The Russkies knew how nukes worked even before the Rosenbergs.

Who were the Rosenbergs?

Update:
Ok got it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juli...thel_Rosenberg

Meanwhile the Russians are winning hearts and minds ...

https://twitter.com/mfa_russia/statu...fAOvfAtXQ&s=19

exactly this. i wasn't really referring to wealthy expats. even just regular people who may end up struggling. how long they would be willing to do their part for the sanctions?

@blueangel, see above.

Yes, it is not going to be easy, and calls for some form of government actions will get louder.

That said, I have a hunch what you actually want to say is something else. Something to do with why should we support Ukraine at all. Maybe that is an unfair and wrong assumption, I don't know.

Still waiting for your strategic analysis of the Russian warplans btw.

Just to be very clear, i do not deny and fully agree Mariupol, amongst other cities, is under attack, civilians are being targeted and killed, as are women, children hospitals and any thing else the Russian target in order to keep the momentum running.


The Russian/Soviet way was targets were set and had to be reached, obtained and even bettered and this is the way this war is panning out. In order to hide their incompetence, the fact the equipment is totally over rated you will get a lot of fake news coming out, casualties, number of tanks destroyed, number of Javelin missiles launched.



Much procurement in Russia was under the terms of bribery and corruption, and still is, meaning once the contracts were agreed, the first part was to pay everybody off and whatever was left over was used to purchase whatever was being purchased resulting in very sub standard goods being delivered.


Rather than admit this, the targets set by Moscow are all achieved one way or another, by lying by cheating by whatever means but Moscow is happy and the fraud goes on.


This is why what we hear has a considerable amount of fake news in order to maintain the fantasy.


The Ukrainians will of course ensure civilian casualties are reported as high as possible and equipment is lacking in order to get the West to supply more and intervene.



The British army has been training the Ukrainian army since 2014, they are certainly being supplied with up to date and accurate information which is probably why the large convoy hasn't yet been attacked, they are waiting for a particular moment when the chance of success and highest kill rate is judged to be best. This will be determined by US and Western intel.


At the end of the day, nobody can will this war, everybody is a loser, the degree of "loser" is the only thing left to determine.

Basically, if you want to fight a war, don't encourage a kleptocracy.