i think from a purely military perspective Putin did what he felt needed to be done. you can place the sole responsibility of that decision on Putin.

but even now Ukraine is sending 18 year olds with minimum training into battle and encouraging citizens to engage with professional soldiers. at some point i think they become responsible for their own decisions and how they choose to respond.

Ain't war hell?

Exactly. "You made me do it". Wife-beater's logic.

Not always.

Sometimes bombing non-combatants for 8 years is called an "anti-terrorist operation".
Somehow the majority here magically forgets that Ukrainians were regularly killed long before Putin started the offensive.

Cmon, mention the Iraq War while you're at it. Then you'll have the whole whataboutism collection. It's sad that we have to still explain to adults that two wrongs don't make a right.

Of course, but then you have to decide on what makes a "right!"
Everybody, all over the world is too involved in this, we are all acutely aware that things can go to hell in a handbasket in a matter of a few minutes. What I am trying to say is that we don´t have the luxury of viewing this conflict in the rear mirror.

Exactly, Thanks for reminding.

Iraq, Vietnam, Hiroshima, Dresden...

Anything I missed out?
But the claim I responded to was that the only reason for civilians deaths in Ukraine is Putin's offensive. No, it isn't.

so he will continue

True, there have been car accidents and murders before.

Seriously, WTF?

dont feed the troll

dont feed the trolls

artillery shelling of residential areas for 8 years

While I agree that whatabouts is a bad idea in general, I see only two options here:

1. Keep entertaining ourselves with dividing the leaders, countries and peoples into bad and good ones.
2. Understand the causes and history of the conflict and try to more clearly predict its development.


It seems that the direction in which this discussion went doesn't quite coincide with the topic title

China likely to provide Russia with military support

Behind paywall, copy paste of the article below

US tells allies China signalled openness to provide Russia with military support

State department informs diplomats in Europe and Asia that Beijing reacted positively to request

The US has told allies that China signalled its willingness to provide military assistance to Russia to support its invasion of Ukraine, according to officials familiar with American diplomatic cables on the exchange.

The cables, which were sent by the US state department to allies in Europe and Asia, were not specific about the level or the timing of any assistance that may be provided.

The Financial Times reported on Sunday that Russia had made the request for assistance at some point after the start of the now three-week conflict.

The Russian request and Chinese response have sounded alarm bells in the White House. US officials believe China is trying to help Russia while its top officials publicly call for a diplomatic solution to the war.

The Chinese embassy in the US on Sunday said it had no knowledge of any Russian request or positive Chinese response to Moscow. Russia on Monday also denied making any request to China.

A senior US defence official declined to say if China had provided military support after Russia’s request, but said the Pentagon was watching the situation “very, very closely”.

“If China does choose to materially support Russia in this war, there will likely be consequences for China,” the defence official said.

The official added: “We have seen China basically give tacit approval to what Russia is doing by refusing to join sanctions, by blaming the west and the United States for assistance that we’re giving Ukraine [and] by claiming they wanted to see a peaceful outcome but essentially doing nothing to achieve it.”

Jake Sullivan, US national security adviser, is expected to raise the issue in Rome today in a meeting with Yang Jiechi, China’s top foreign policy official. Before departing Washington on Sunday, Sullivan said he would warn the Chinese not to attempt to “bail out” Russia, including helping it survive the tough sanctions from the west.

“We*will ensure that neither China, nor anyone else, can compensate Russia for these losses,” Sullivan told NBC television on Sunday. “In terms of the specific means of doing that, again, I’m not going to lay all of that out in public, but we will communicate that privately to China.”


Ahead of the meeting between Sullivan and Yang, the Biden administration last week asked European allies to amplify their message to China that Beijing should not help Russia circumvent sanctions, according to one European official.

China has portrayed itself as a neutral actor despite its increasingly close ties to Moscow. But Chinese media and diplomats have offered support for Russia’s justification for the invasion and blamed the US and Nato for the conflict.

Chinese media have also repeated unsubstantiated Russian claims that the US helped Ukraine build biological weapons labs.

Beijing and Moscow have grown closer in recent years, largely due to their shared disdain for the US and western military alliances such as Nato. Last month, Chinese president Xi Jinping and Russian president Vladimir Putin signed a joint statement in Beijing that described their increasingly close partnership as having “no limits”.

Evan Medeiros, a China expert at Georgetown University and former top White House Asia adviser, said it would be “deeply worrisome” if China transferred weapons to Russia.

“It would be a game-changer for global geopolitics,” Medeiros added. “We risk going back to the days of the Sino-Soviet alliance of the 1950s. Ukraine may become the first proxy conflict in a new cold war.”

Somebody jumped into the live session of the main Russian news program, with the poster „No war. Stop the war. Don’t believe the propaganda. They are lying to you here“. This girl might go to jail for a few years.

Attached Images

 

still going. allegedly Ukraine just launched missiles at a residential area in Donetsk with ~20 killed.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ack-on-donetsk

Staged by Russia for Russian TV viewers. They desperately need some news as the TV viewers are starting to wake up.

It has also contributed to more Russian soldiers being killed.

But Ukrainian citizens are already engaged with professional Russian soldiers without any choice, never mind encouragement, as they sit at home and the professional soldiers are hitting them with bombs, shells, and missiles.

When I see what Ukrainians are going through right now, I am forced to realize how much I have taken peace for granted.

I'm meeting refugees at Zürich HB and some of them tell me that they have already fled twice: once in 2014 from Donbass and now again from their new home.