Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #4581  
Old 16.03.2022, 16:11
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,381
Groaned at 721 Times in 605 Posts
Thanked 24,090 Times in 12,615 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Unfortunately I tend to agree with this. The cycle of false hope and promises is part of the Russian tactics. Only 4 things can stop this war:

1. Putin is toppled (he will never go voluntarily)
2. China tell Putin to stop (unlikely)
3. NATO call Putin's bluff on the no-fly zone
4. The Russian people revolt (unlikely they can reach the critical mass to outnumber the police).

Oddly enough when Hitler invaded France, they were also stuck in a traffic jam of their own making. If the French army had manned up, they possibly could have prevented most of WWII.
I do not see the value of a "no-fly zone " when Russian planes do not penetrate deeply into Ukraine unless the definition is expanded to include missiles; the Russians are mostly using missiles. Enforcing a "no missile" zone would be very difficult especially when most missiles are launched outside of the Ukraine.

I do not see NATO planes bombing Russian launch sites or vice versa.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #4582  
Old 16.03.2022, 16:19
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 2,210
Groaned at 1,037 Times in 582 Posts
Thanked 5,486 Times in 2,457 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
For a so-called world power, Russia's invasion has been pathetic.

Putin's forces are out of their depth. Russia should have secured Kyiv in a couple of days - and the whole of Ukraine within a week.

Yes, the fighting may continue, but on present performance, Russia urgently needs to find a way out and save face...
Indeed, garburko posted an interesting article in recent days about how to go about this.

I was also completely surprised at how poor Russian forces have been. Although we need to be careful at what we view on social media, especially with the good job Ukraine are doing in the information wars, it is clear Russia have been bogged down in her progress and taken a huge number of losses in both equipment and personnel. How this compares to Ukraine losses remains unknown, though some estimates have it at a 4 to 1 ratio Russia to Ukraine.

I had thought the amount of armor Russia had would play a decisive factor in this invasion. Having however seen the number of burned out Russian tanks, I think the last place I would want to be in a modern battlefield would be in a tank!!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #4583  
Old 16.03.2022, 16:24
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 5,579
Groaned at 105 Times in 96 Posts
Thanked 8,182 Times in 3,834 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
For a so-called world power, Russia's invasion has been pathetic.

Putin's forces are out of their depth. Russia should have secured Kyiv in a couple of days - and the whole of Ukraine within a week.

Yes, the fighting may continue, but on present performance, Russia urgently needs to find a way out and save face...
Never mistake efficiency for efficacy.

Efficiency: the ratio of the useful work spent in a process to the total resources expended. The Russian Army is not very efficient. Lots of effort and resources and slow results.

Efficacy: the ability to produce a desired or intended result.We don't know the outcome of the war yet. Russia may go bankrupt in the process of invading Ukraine, hundreds of thousands of expendable young men may die, but win anyway. Dictators don't care about their own population.

So, we don't know the future. It's comforting to think Russia is corrupt and inefficient, but that doesn't predicts anything.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #4584  
Old 16.03.2022, 16:35
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,661
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,535 Times in 4,123 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Indeed, garburko posted an interesting article in recent days about how to go about this.

I was also completely surprised at how poor Russian forces have been. Although we need to be careful at what we view on social media, especially with the good job Ukraine are doing in the information wars, it is clear Russia have been bogged down in her progress and taken a huge number of losses in both equipment and personnel. How this compares to Ukraine losses remains unknown, though some estimates have it at a 4 to 1 ratio Russia to Ukraine.

I had thought the amount of armor Russia had would play a decisive factor in this invasion. Having however seen the number of burned out Russian tanks, I think the last place I would want to be in a modern battlefield would be in a tank!!
I think that one of the consequences of this war will be that we see the end of the tank as a weapon system. The development of the tank is way behind the anti tank weapon. Without the development of a Startrek forcefield you would need to armor your tank to a point where it is no longer an asset in battle.
It will go the way of the big gun battleship which was made obsolete by aircraft and missiles. Next big casualty will in my opinion be the aircraft carrier.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank slammer for this useful post:
  #4585  
Old 16.03.2022, 16:46
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,381
Groaned at 721 Times in 605 Posts
Thanked 24,090 Times in 12,615 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
j

that would be great news. but the fact that Ukraine keeps losing territory and Russia just keeps continuing to advance seems to suggest otherwise.
i would guess that any positive noises from the negotiations will only come from Ukraine accepting Russias terms. i predict the fighting will continue.
After three weeks, Russia has yet to announce any major strategic successes.

Compare with the US invasion of Iraq which was a completely successful invasion in the same timescale, Iraq had a similar size population and army.

The Russian army has proven to be a great military failure; even if they eventually succeed in taking Ukraine they will face years of guerilla action resulting in losing equipment, people, respect and eventually abandoning the Ukraine.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #4586  
Old 16.03.2022, 17:11
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: transcended.
Posts: 180
Groaned at 231 Times in 121 Posts
Thanked 857 Times in 366 Posts
vushka is considered unworthyvushka is considered unworthyvushka is considered unworthy
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
For a so-called world power, Russia's invasion has been pathetic.

Putin's forces are out of their depth. Russia should have secured Kyiv in a couple of days - and the whole of Ukraine within a week.

Yes, the fighting may continue, but on present performance, Russia urgently needs to find a way out and save face...
it appears they definitely made some mistakes in the beginning. but they seemed to have made corrections since. and the fact that they have tried to avoid civilian casualties has likely frustrated them. im sure it hasn't gone as fast as they wanted, but one week seems a bit unrealistic for a country as large as Ukraine.

obviously just my opinion but the deliberate destruction of military industry implies that their aim is to demilitarise Ukraine, not total annexation. but who knows.
Reply With Quote
  #4587  
Old 16.03.2022, 17:18
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 14,194
Groaned at 1,440 Times in 953 Posts
Thanked 21,498 Times in 8,207 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
the fact that they have tried to avoid civilian casualties has likely frustrated them
The Russians have tried to avoid civilian casualties by systematically targeting residential areas, hospitals and schools? What?
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
  #4588  
Old 16.03.2022, 17:21
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nyon
Posts: 8,109
Groaned at 514 Times in 378 Posts
Thanked 11,354 Times in 5,272 Posts
bowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
The Russians have tried to avoid civilian casualties by systematically targeting residential areas, hospitals and schools? What?
Just ignore the troll, perhapshe will go away.
Reply With Quote
  #4589  
Old 16.03.2022, 17:22
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 800
Groaned at 109 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,108 Times in 550 Posts
vladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
In the message you will have received telling you your post had been deleted, you'll have seen the reason: Foreign language without English translation

OK. Let me explain. This is "The English Forum". Posts are to be made in English. If you post in a foreign language you are supposed to also give a translation in English. If you don't do this, your post may be deleted.

And it has.

The purpose of this rule is twofold. 1. so everyone can understand and 2. so that foreign rudeness can't be hidden.
in this case translation doesnt makes any sense since its popular in UA meme
Reply With Quote
  #4590  
Old 16.03.2022, 17:24
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 800
Groaned at 109 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,108 Times in 550 Posts
vladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
i think russian propaganda is more about restoring the "glory" to the russian empire and "liberating" the Ukranian people. i would argue i have been parroting a more reality propaganda. it may seem like its favouring the russians simply because it counters the western narrative that Ukranians are achieving sensationalist victories and repelling the invaders... despite most evidence suggesting the opposite.
and also you promoting that its Ukrainians shelling its citizens, which is blatant lie and there is no evidence (except your favorite ru propaganda sources)
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank vladest for this useful post:
  #4591  
Old 16.03.2022, 17:25
litespeed's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dietikon ZH
Posts: 2,561
Groaned at 26 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 4,066 Times in 1,324 Posts
litespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond reputelitespeed has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
I think that one of the consequences of this war will be that we see the end of the tank as a weapon system. The development of the tank is way behind the anti tank weapon. Without the development of a Startrek forcefield you would need to armor your tank to a point where it is no longer an asset in battle.
It will go the way of the big gun battleship which was made obsolete by aircraft and missiles. Next big casualty will in my opinion be the aircraft carrier.
I would agree that tanks in their current form are obsolete, and definitely wouldn't be where I'd want to perform duty. Aircraft carriers I'm not so sure.

B52s and U-2s were supposed to be superceded a long time ago, but will likely be in service into the 2050s. They are indeed survivors...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank litespeed for this useful post:
  #4592  
Old 16.03.2022, 17:27
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 14,194
Groaned at 1,440 Times in 953 Posts
Thanked 21,498 Times in 8,207 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Just ignore the troll, perhapshe will go away.
Honestly, mods should be insta-banning anyone repeatedly engaging in wilful whitewashing/support/denial of Russian atrocities.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
  #4593  
Old 16.03.2022, 17:27
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 800
Groaned at 109 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,108 Times in 550 Posts
vladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Compared with over 600 civilian deaths
i would not comment official UA military counts of ru death toll, but UA civilians death toll only in Mariupol ~2500, Kharkiv ~600
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank vladest for this useful post:
  #4594  
Old 16.03.2022, 17:30
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 800
Groaned at 109 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,108 Times in 550 Posts
vladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
the famous "ghost of Kyiv" was always an "in joke" but many did not get the joke
I think it was like a "collective pilot"
Reply With Quote
  #4595  
Old 16.03.2022, 17:34
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 9,038
Groaned at 393 Times in 270 Posts
Thanked 13,772 Times in 4,716 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
it appears they definitely made some mistakes in the beginning. but they seemed to have made corrections since. and the fact that they have tried to avoid civilian casualties has likely frustrated them. im sure it hasn't gone as fast as they wanted, but one week seems a bit unrealistic for a country as large as Ukraine.

obviously just my opinion but the deliberate destruction of military industry implies that their aim is to demilitarise Ukraine, not total annexation. but who knows.
Thanks for the glimpse of life in a parallel universe…
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #4596  
Old 16.03.2022, 17:36
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 800
Groaned at 109 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,108 Times in 550 Posts
vladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
it appears they definitely made some mistakes in the beginning. but they seemed to have made corrections since. and the fact that they have tried to avoid civilian casualties has likely frustrated them. im sure it hasn't gone as fast as they wanted, but one week seems a bit unrealistic for a country as large as Ukraine.

obviously just my opinion but the deliberate destruction of military industry implies that their aim is to demilitarise Ukraine, not total annexation. but who knows.
yeah, their correction was to destroy everything they cant capture
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank vladest for this useful post:
  #4597  
Old 16.03.2022, 17:38
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 800
Groaned at 109 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,108 Times in 550 Posts
vladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
The Russians have tried to avoid civilian casualties by systematically targeting residential areas, hospitals and schools? What?
in vushka's alternate world its ukrainian army shelling ukrainian civilians
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank vladest for this useful post:
  #4598  
Old 16.03.2022, 17:43
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 18,437
Groaned at 821 Times in 640 Posts
Thanked 28,607 Times in 11,564 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Honestly, mods should be insta-banning anyone repeatedly engaging in wilful whitewashing/support/denial of Russian atrocities.
But he's obviously got a following here as his green rep is shooting up.

I can think of a few obvious candidates...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #4599  
Old 16.03.2022, 17:48
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,199
Groaned at 348 Times in 301 Posts
Thanked 25,607 Times in 10,426 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Honestly, mods should be insta-banning anyone repeatedly engaging in willful whitewashing/support/denial of Russian atrocities.
Well, I got there in the end.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #4600  
Old 16.03.2022, 17:49
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,199
Groaned at 348 Times in 301 Posts
Thanked 25,607 Times in 10,426 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
I can think of a few obvious candidates...
And you'd probably be right.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
crimea, russia, ukraine




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jewish Refugees in Switzerland during World War II zanskar International affairs/politics 48 16.06.2010 15:58
Book about Switzerland in the second world war [recommendation?] telandy Other/general 14 18.06.2007 20:15


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0