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16.03.2022, 16:11
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Unfortunately I tend to agree with this. The cycle of false hope and promises is part of the Russian tactics. Only 4 things can stop this war:
1. Putin is toppled (he will never go voluntarily)
2. China tell Putin to stop (unlikely)
3. NATO call Putin's bluff on the no-fly zone
4. The Russian people revolt (unlikely they can reach the critical mass to outnumber the police).
Oddly enough when Hitler invaded France, they were also stuck in a traffic jam of their own making. If the French army had manned up, they possibly could have prevented most of WWII. | | | | | I do not see the value of a "no-fly zone " when Russian planes do not penetrate deeply into Ukraine unless the definition is expanded to include missiles; the Russians are mostly using missiles. Enforcing a "no missile" zone would be very difficult especially when most missiles are launched outside of the Ukraine.
I do not see NATO planes bombing Russian launch sites or vice versa.
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16.03.2022, 16:19
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | For a so-called world power, Russia's invasion has been pathetic.
Putin's forces are out of their depth. Russia should have secured Kyiv in a couple of days - and the whole of Ukraine within a week.
Yes, the fighting may continue, but on present performance, Russia urgently needs to find a way out and save face... | | | | | Indeed, garburko posted an interesting article in recent days about how to go about this.
I was also completely surprised at how poor Russian forces have been. Although we need to be careful at what we view on social media, especially with the good job Ukraine are doing in the information wars, it is clear Russia have been bogged down in her progress and taken a huge number of losses in both equipment and personnel. How this compares to Ukraine losses remains unknown, though some estimates have it at a 4 to 1 ratio Russia to Ukraine.
I had thought the amount of armor Russia had would play a decisive factor in this invasion. Having however seen the number of burned out Russian tanks, I think the last place I would want to be in a modern battlefield would be in a tank!! | This user would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post: | | 
16.03.2022, 16:24
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | For a so-called world power, Russia's invasion has been pathetic.
Putin's forces are out of their depth. Russia should have secured Kyiv in a couple of days - and the whole of Ukraine within a week.
Yes, the fighting may continue, but on present performance, Russia urgently needs to find a way out and save face... | | | | | Never mistake efficiency for efficacy.
Efficiency: the ratio of the useful work spent in a process to the total resources expended. The Russian Army is not very efficient. Lots of effort and resources and slow results.
Efficacy: the ability to produce a desired or intended result.We don't know the outcome of the war yet. Russia may go bankrupt in the process of invading Ukraine, hundreds of thousands of expendable young men may die, but win anyway. Dictators don't care about their own population.
So, we don't know the future. It's comforting to think Russia is corrupt and inefficient, but that doesn't predicts anything.
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16.03.2022, 16:35
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Indeed, garburko posted an interesting article in recent days about how to go about this.
I was also completely surprised at how poor Russian forces have been. Although we need to be careful at what we view on social media, especially with the good job Ukraine are doing in the information wars, it is clear Russia have been bogged down in her progress and taken a huge number of losses in both equipment and personnel. How this compares to Ukraine losses remains unknown, though some estimates have it at a 4 to 1 ratio Russia to Ukraine.
I had thought the amount of armor Russia had would play a decisive factor in this invasion. Having however seen the number of burned out Russian tanks, I think the last place I would want to be in a modern battlefield would be in a tank!!  | | | | | I think that one of the consequences of this war will be that we see the end of the tank as a weapon system. The development of the tank is way behind the anti tank weapon. Without the development of a Startrek forcefield you would need to armor your tank to a point where it is no longer an asset in battle.
It will go the way of the big gun battleship which was made obsolete by aircraft and missiles. Next big casualty will in my opinion be the aircraft carrier.
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16.03.2022, 16:46
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | j
that would be great news. but the fact that Ukraine keeps losing territory and Russia just keeps continuing to advance seems to suggest otherwise.
i would guess that any positive noises from the negotiations will only come from Ukraine accepting Russias terms. i predict the fighting will continue. | | | | | After three weeks, Russia has yet to announce any major strategic successes.
Compare with the US invasion of Iraq which was a completely successful invasion in the same timescale, Iraq had a similar size population and army.
The Russian army has proven to be a great military failure; even if they eventually succeed in taking Ukraine they will face years of guerilla action resulting in losing equipment, people, respect and eventually abandoning the Ukraine.
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16.03.2022, 17:11
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | For a so-called world power, Russia's invasion has been pathetic.
Putin's forces are out of their depth. Russia should have secured Kyiv in a couple of days - and the whole of Ukraine within a week.
Yes, the fighting may continue, but on present performance, Russia urgently needs to find a way out and save face... | | | | | it appears they definitely made some mistakes in the beginning. but they seemed to have made corrections since. and the fact that they have tried to avoid civilian casualties has likely frustrated them. im sure it hasn't gone as fast as they wanted, but one week seems a bit unrealistic for a country as large as Ukraine.
obviously just my opinion but the deliberate destruction of military industry implies that their aim is to demilitarise Ukraine, not total annexation. but who knows.
| 
16.03.2022, 17:18
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | the fact that they have tried to avoid civilian casualties has likely frustrated them | | | | | The Russians have tried to avoid civilian casualties by systematically targeting residential areas, hospitals and schools? What? | The following 7 users would like to thank Chuff for this useful post: | | 
16.03.2022, 17:21
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | The Russians have tried to avoid civilian casualties by systematically targeting residential areas, hospitals and schools? What?  | | | | | Just ignore the troll, perhapshe will go away.
| 
16.03.2022, 17:22
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | In the message you will have received telling you your post had been deleted, you'll have seen the reason: Foreign language without English translation
OK. Let me explain. This is "The English Forum". Posts are to be made in English. If you post in a foreign language you are supposed to also give a translation in English. If you don't do this, your post may be deleted.
And it has.
The purpose of this rule is twofold. 1. so everyone can understand and 2. so that foreign rudeness can't be hidden. | | | | | in this case translation doesnt makes any sense since its popular in UA meme
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16.03.2022, 17:24
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | i think russian propaganda is more about restoring the "glory" to the russian empire and "liberating" the Ukranian people. i would argue i have been parroting a more reality propaganda. it may seem like its favouring the russians simply because it counters the western narrative that Ukranians are achieving sensationalist victories and repelling the invaders... despite most evidence suggesting the opposite. | | | | | and also you promoting that its Ukrainians shelling its citizens, which is blatant lie and there is no evidence (except your favorite ru propaganda sources)
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16.03.2022, 17:25
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I think that one of the consequences of this war will be that we see the end of the tank as a weapon system. The development of the tank is way behind the anti tank weapon. Without the development of a Startrek forcefield you would need to armor your tank to a point where it is no longer an asset in battle.
It will go the way of the big gun battleship which was made obsolete by aircraft and missiles. Next big casualty will in my opinion be the aircraft carrier. | | | | | I would agree that tanks in their current form are obsolete, and definitely wouldn't be where I'd want to perform duty. Aircraft carriers I'm not so sure.
B52s and U-2s were supposed to be superceded a long time ago, but will likely be in service into the 2050s. They are indeed survivors...
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16.03.2022, 17:27
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Just ignore the troll, perhapshe will go away. | | | | | Honestly, mods should be insta-banning anyone repeatedly engaging in wilful whitewashing/support/denial of Russian atrocities.
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16.03.2022, 17:27
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Compared with over 600 civilian deaths | | | | | i would not comment official UA military counts of ru death toll, but UA civilians death toll only in Mariupol ~2500, Kharkiv ~600
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16.03.2022, 17:30
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | the famous "ghost of Kyiv" was always an "in joke" but many did not get the joke | | | | | I think it was like a "collective pilot"
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16.03.2022, 17:34
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | it appears they definitely made some mistakes in the beginning. but they seemed to have made corrections since. and the fact that they have tried to avoid civilian casualties has likely frustrated them. im sure it hasn't gone as fast as they wanted, but one week seems a bit unrealistic for a country as large as Ukraine.
obviously just my opinion but the deliberate destruction of military industry implies that their aim is to demilitarise Ukraine, not total annexation. but who knows. | | | | | Thanks for the glimpse of life in a parallel universe…
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16.03.2022, 17:36
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | it appears they definitely made some mistakes in the beginning. but they seemed to have made corrections since. and the fact that they have tried to avoid civilian casualties has likely frustrated them. im sure it hasn't gone as fast as they wanted, but one week seems a bit unrealistic for a country as large as Ukraine.
obviously just my opinion but the deliberate destruction of military industry implies that their aim is to demilitarise Ukraine, not total annexation. but who knows. | | | | | yeah, their correction was to destroy everything they cant capture
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16.03.2022, 17:38
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | The Russians have tried to avoid civilian casualties by systematically targeting residential areas, hospitals and schools? What?  | | | | | in vushka's alternate world its ukrainian army shelling ukrainian civilians | The following 3 users would like to thank vladest for this useful post: | | 
16.03.2022, 17:43
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Honestly, mods should be insta-banning anyone repeatedly engaging in wilful whitewashing/support/denial of Russian atrocities. | | | | | But he's obviously got a following here as his green rep is shooting up.
I can think of a few obvious candidates...
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16.03.2022, 17:48
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Honestly, mods should be insta-banning anyone repeatedly engaging in willful whitewashing/support/denial of Russian atrocities. | | | | | Well, I got there in the end.
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16.03.2022, 17:49
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I can think of a few obvious candidates... | | | | | And you'd probably be right.
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