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  #4701  
Old 18.03.2022, 12:27
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

3.2 million refugees. 2 million refugees have arrived to Poland. The Polish are hosting the refugees but I wonder what's the honest and unfiltered perception of Russia.


https://data2.unhcr.org/en/situation...259.1646912187
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Old 18.03.2022, 14:23
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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3.2 million refugees. 2 million refugees have arrived to Poland. The Polish are hosting the refugees but I wonder what's the honest and unfiltered perception of Russia.


https://data2.unhcr.org/en/situation...259.1646912187
What's your question about Russia? Do you mean how Poles are seeing Russia or relationship with Russia?

I'm Polish btw.
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  #4703  
Old 18.03.2022, 14:28
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I was talking about Ukraine and Russia here.
You claim that the memorandum is binding, that's what treaties are. The US disagree, they explicitly state that it's not binding. At least in theory that shold be Russia's position as well, it's the same memorandum.

Methinks the US' interpretation is based on a bit higher competence, and has marginally more credibility, than yours. Just a tad.

But hey, maybe know better. Maybe Russia declared it as binding for them. In which case you're expected to provide proof.

Last edited by Urs Max; 18.03.2022 at 14:40.
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Old 18.03.2022, 14:58
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The Polish are hosting the refugees but I wonder what's the honest and unfiltered perception of Russia.
Ooooo!

I've quiet a few Polish friends and former travel industry colleagues (all women). I couldn't possibly repeat their current views on Russia's activities on a public forum without getting banned for posting obscenities.
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  #4705  
Old 18.03.2022, 15:07
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Ooooo!

I've quiet a few Polish friends and former travel industry colleagues (all women). I couldn't possibly repeat their current views on Russia's activities on a public forum without getting banned for posting obscenities.
Go on, give us a few rhyming slang alternatives.
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  #4706  
Old 18.03.2022, 15:13
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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What's your question about Russia? Do you mean how Poles are seeing Russia or relationship with Russia?

I'm Polish btw.
I've heard the obscenities Blueangel mentions. I guess the current war has done nothing but reinforcing the past views.

But, what happens after 2 million guests arrive within a few days? Is Polish people supportive, worried, scared, the three at the same time? It's nice to help but the great number of people puts pressure on health system, food supply, water
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  #4707  
Old 18.03.2022, 15:42
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

It seems that those Iron Curtain countries where they were under the heel of the USSR are far more vociferously anti-Russian then those that were largely just under the yoke of their own tyrant, like Yugoslavia.
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Old 18.03.2022, 16:25
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I've heard the obscenities Blueangel mentions. I guess the current war has done nothing but reinforcing the past views.

But, what happens after 2 million guests arrive within a few days? Is Polish people supportive, worried, scared, the three at the same time? It's nice to help but the great number of people puts pressure on health system, food supply, water
2 millions already arrived in Poland. And of course people are worried, and expecting hardships. Parents of my wife accomodated a woman with her daughter. Her husband and 18-years old boy are now together in the army in Dnipro.
That's sheer horror. Didn't we wanted already a 100 years ago for the teenage boys in Europe to stop dying in wars? Sadly that songs fits perfectly again - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqba0IUdiBk

Another aspect - honestly I wasn't expecting that act of kindness from my parents-in-law. But they found it in themselves.

Two hopes are there:
- it will end soon
- these 2 millions will disperse further to the west

It's not the question of the personal comfort. It's the question "what's the alternative?". Let these poor people starve and die by the border, on the Ukrainian side? It's a serious question - would you expect that people considering themselves ethical and civilized would allow that?

You know, in Poland we never had that really disgusting trait in the way of thinking as Russia has:
That human being is nothing but a resource.

That's your answer why we accept 2 millions despite everything.


I can also assure that if there is any support or sympathy to Russia, that percentage is no more than one digit.

Last edited by Excad; 18.03.2022 at 17:05.
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  #4709  
Old 18.03.2022, 17:26
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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You claim that the memorandum is binding, that's what treaties are.
Read my original post again and if you still can't get it just leave it at that...
Obviously that memorandum is not binding anymore.

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noone broadcasting live nowdays. all have dalays 15-30-etc seconds
I have no proofs but out from my memory i can recall that russia stopped live broadcastings at the beginning of war with UA in 2014
This is from her interview, don't know what to believe....she seems genuine. I mean what's so hard to believe, it totally makes sense to me

Russian TV journalist Marina Ovsyannikova protested Vladimir Putin's actions in Ukraine live on the primetime news of state broacaster Channel One. In an interview, she explains how that moment changed her life and her fears of what might come next.

https://www.spiegel.de/international...qQn8-Qz2G5FyjU


Quote:
DER SPIEGEL: You’ve worked for Channel One for years. Why did you only take action now?

Ovsyannikova: I am not very political, I've never gone to protests. Call it a cognitive dissonance that I have long repressed. You know, my dissatisfaction has been building up over all these years. The screws were gradually tightened further and further here: First, we could no longer freely elect the governors (Eds: the leaders of the various regions of Russia, similar to governors in Germany or the United States) as used to be the case. Then came all the events in Ukraine in 2014, the instability, the proclamation of the "Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics" and the poisoning of Alexei Navalny. At the same time, the authorities began gradually shutting down or blocking the independent media. The beginning of the war against Ukraine was the point of no return for me. No one – neither me, nor my friends or family – expected it. We thought Russia, the United States and NATO were rattling sabers. That the diplomats would talk, defuse everything and the situation would calm down. When I woke up the morning of Feb. 24 and heard that Putin had started a war against Ukraine, one that was not just limited to the "People’s Republics of Donetsk and Luhansk," but one in which the Russian army is advancing towards Kyiv, it was really a shock. It was terrible. Every normal thinking person in Russia was aware that they could not go on living the way they used to.

"I wanted to show that Russians are also against this war, which many people in the West don’t realize. The majority of smart and educated people here oppose the war."
DER SPIEGEL: You were born in Odessa. Do you still have relatives in Ukraine? Was that a reason for your protest?

Ovsyannikova: This is a war against a brother nation! No sane person can accept that. My father is Ukrainian, my mother is Russian. It is true that I was born in Odessa back in Soviet times. When I was one, we left for Russia and I have lived here ever since. My father died in Odessa, his grave is there. I still have relatives, an aunt, cousins, but I have little contact with them. For me, the protest was first and foremost a pacifist action – it is in the interest of Russia and the world to end this as soon as possible. I wanted to show that Russians are also against this war, which many people in the West don’t realize. The majority of smart and educated people here oppose the war.

DER SPIEGEL: There are people who believe that your protest was planned, that it was staged by others.

Ovsyannikova: (laughs out loud) I’ve read that, but here I am, a real person. There is no fake, this was not a montage. I was in the studio at Channel One, the station has confirmed the incident, and there are colleagues who can do the same. The protest was my idea alone. I can see now that all possible versions are being spread, that all the forces of propaganda are being directed against me in order to slander me.

DER SPIEGEL: Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov has accused you of …

Ovsyannikova: ... yes, I know what he said (Eds: Peskov called the protest "hooliganism"). I’m enemy No. 1 here now.

DER SPIEGEL: Did you expect these consequences?

Ovsyannikova: I was so charged, angry, and I wanted to express that with my protest. At that moment, I didn’t think of such far-reaching consequences. I am now becoming aware of them. More and more each day.

"The beginning of the war against Ukraine was the point of no return for me. No one – neither me, nor my friends or family – expected it."
DER SPIEGEL: When did you make the decision? It looked like your protest had been long planned.

Ovsyannikova: We work at the station on an alternating weekly basis, one week of work, one week off. I was off until Sunday. That day, I bought paper and pens, prepared the poster in my kitchen and recorded the video, which I posted on Facebook after the action. I didn’t tell anyone in my family nor any of my friends or colleagues about my plan. Nobody knew about it – otherwise it probably would have gone wrong. A few knew that I was against the war, but nothing more.
.................................................. .............
DER SPIEGEL: You’ve had a good life so far. You’ve traveled a lot, also to Western Europe, as one can see on your Facebook page.
Ovsyannikova: Yes, my life was good, I could not complain, it was the life of the Moscow middle class.

Ovsyannikova: My life will be totally different. I don’t know what is going to happen. Who knows in war time? No one can plan anymore, anyway. The war has destroyed all plans and it is causing so much suffering, especially in Ukraine. I am happy to be reading now that, one by one, other colleagues at state broadcasters are quitting.

Last edited by greenmount; 19.03.2022 at 08:19. Reason: long quote
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  #4710  
Old 18.03.2022, 18:02
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Interesting development. Russian Orthodox Chuch in Amsterdam breaks with Moscow.

https://www.indcatholicnews.com/news...iOdybuSF_dW4D4
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  #4711  
Old 18.03.2022, 18:29
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Interesting development. Russian Orthodox Chuch in Amsterdam breaks with Moscow.

https://www.indcatholicnews.com/news...iOdybuSF_dW4D4
That means they will survive with donations? Normally all these dioceses are sponsored from public funds and donations.
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  #4712  
Old 18.03.2022, 21:14
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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This is from her interview, don't know what to believe....she seems genuine. I mean what's so hard to believe, it totally makes sense to me
she was 8 years editor of total lies and propaganda channel, and, suddenly when her chief went under sanctions, she is unblinded
i wouldnt trust any single word of the person
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  #4713  
Old 18.03.2022, 21:45
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Puzzling!

Russia constructing earthen berms to protect military positions northwest of Kyiv, satellite images show (link has a copy of the image).

Walls constructed in this manner are an effective obstacle to vehicles, including most armoured fighting vehicles.
The Berms are not only a potential obstacle for Ukrainian attackers but will also obstruct the Russians from moving forward.
This is a defensive move, not offensive, so what does this mean?
Are the Russians really abandoning attacking in this area? Does anybody have a clue?
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  #4714  
Old 18.03.2022, 22:51
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Putin has celebrated today and even quoted from the Bible praising the special operation in UA....

https://news.sky.com/video/putin-spe...ation-12569386

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60793319

I have no doubts now that he is totally insane.
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Old 19.03.2022, 00:51
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Puzzling!

Russia constructing earthen berms to protect military positions northwest of Kyiv, satellite images show (link has a copy of the image).

Walls constructed in this manner are an effective obstacle to vehicles, including most armoured fighting vehicles.
The Berms are not only a potential obstacle for Ukrainian attackers but will also obstruct the Russians from moving forward.
This is a defensive move, not offensive, so what does this mean?
Are the Russians really abandoning attacking in this area? Does anybody have a clue?
As you well know, I have no clue. The big unknown is how much of a real grasp on the situation Putin has and how much he is trying to look for realistic solutions to get out of this and still be able to declare victory.

What I read from the military experts' perspective, the chances of capturing Kyiv are slim. The place where the Russians can have some success seems to be in the South, connecting Crimea with the two bullshit republics. As a wild guess, the moves you describe around Kyiy are fortfying their positions there as a negotiation chip while trying to getting firmer grip on the south, and try to go into talks from there. Essentially asking for Crimea formally as Russia plus some concession on Donbas and the corridor in between. In exchange for letting go Kyiv, Odessa and Charkiv.

This is from my board of Risk. See first sentence of post.
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  #4716  
Old 19.03.2022, 07:54
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Let's discuss what happened yesterday at that "spontaneous" festival that Putin attended and where the now largely known ideas were reiterated. To me it looked like the most sinister and grotesque event I have ever seen. What happened there and in Ukraine as we speak looks like coming out of the Book of Nazis, what we see now, in the 21st century, is a shame for everyone who allowed this to happen.

Quote:
Russian President Vladimir Putin used a rally before a packed soccer stadium on Friday to justify the invasion of Ukraine, promising tens of thousands of people waving Russian flags that all the Kremlin's aims would be achieved.

"We know what we need to do, how to do it and at what cost. And we will absolutely accomplish all of our plans," Putin told a rally at Moscow's Luzhniki Stadium.

He said the soldiers fighting in what Russia calls its "special military operation" in Ukraine had illustrated the unity of Russia.

"Shoulder to shoulder, they help each other, support each other and when needed they shield each other from bullets with their bodies like brothers. Such unity we have not had for a long time," he said.

As Putin was talking, state television briefly cut away from his speech and showed earlier pre-recorded footage of patriotic songs, but the Kremlin chief later appeared back on state television.

RIA news agency cited Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov as saying a technical fault on a server was the reason state television had suddenly cut away from Putin.

Putin says the operation in Ukraine was necessary because the United States was using the country to threaten Russia and Russia had to defend against the "genocide" of Russian-speaking people by Ukraine.

Ukraine says it is fighting for its existence and that Putin's claims of genocide are nonsense. The West says claims it wants to rip Russia apart are fiction.

The stage where Putin spoke was decked out with slogans "For a world without Nazism" and "For our president," using the "Z" - markings used in the military operation in Ukraine.

Before Putin spoke, Russia's stirring national anthem, with the words "Russia is our sacred state" boomed out across the stands of the stadium used in the 2018 Soccer World Cup along with more modern pop hits such as "Made in the U.S.S.R.."

Pan-Slavist poetry by Fyodor Tyutchev, whose verses warned Russians that they would always be considered slaves of the Enlightenment by Europeans, was read out.
https://www.voanews.com/a/putin-tell...e/6491090.html

other article here
https://www.timesofisrael.com/putin-...sured-to-come/

More about the Bible quote here

Quote:
In a speech at a packed Moscow stadium Friday, Russian President Vladimir Putin emphasized that the “special military operation” in Ukraine is an effort to “save people from genocide” and to “demilitarize and denazify” the country.

During his appearance at the pro-Russia rally, which marked the eighth anniversary of Russia’s annexation of Crimea, Putin also quoted Scripture. “There is no greater love than giving up one’s soul for one’s friends,” he said, paraphrasing Jesus’ words from John 15:13.
https://churchleaders.com/news/41993...in-moscow.html

Where did all those sinister pro-Kremlin trolls go? Where are now all those Putin and Russia apologists?

On Reddit? Truth Social?

Last edited by greenmount; 19.03.2022 at 08:21.
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  #4717  
Old 19.03.2022, 09:01
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

A personal view on why Russians don't rise up.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-b2039032.html
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Old 19.03.2022, 11:28
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Claimed yesterday, the Ukrainian military killed Russian Lieutenant-General Andriy Mordvichev.

Meanwhile, US-based satellite, Terran Orbital is providing Ukraine with crucial strategic assistance. According to Ukraine’s Ministry of Defence, the satellite producer is sharing critical data and images of the Russian troops’ movement.
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Old 19.03.2022, 12:10
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Claimed yesterday, the Ukrainian military killed Russian Lieutenant-General Andriy Mordvichev.

Meanwhile, US-based satellite, Terran Orbital is providing Ukraine with crucial strategic assistance. According to Ukraine’s Ministry of Defence, the satellite producer is sharing critical data and images of the Russian troops’ movement.
Expect the Russians to deploy their satellite killers.
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Old 19.03.2022, 12:59
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Obviously that memorandum is not binding anymore.
It never was, that's what you keep ignoring. A memorandum is not a treaty.
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