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  #4801  
Old 21.03.2022, 14:39
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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They could do more though....I think.

Imagine one day it could be your country being bombed and your people being killed and your president begging others to just do more... I am ashamed. I feel small and powerless. I am not pro-war or anything like this but I can see where TinyK is coming from.
Of course more can be done because the war has not stopped. At the same time, the international reaction is completely different to 2014 when Crimea was invaded: intelligence sharing, send weapons, hosting refugees, economic sanctions. But these actions are not enough because the war has not ended yet

Back to out little sphere of influence, don't vote anymore for idiots who support Putin in our countries of origin. And here in CH: don't put much effort trying to find arguments to save contracts with Russian companies.
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  #4802  
Old 21.03.2022, 15:13
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Oh come on, Nestle have done loads - they've stopped shipping Nespresso into Russia (but little else).

Link
I was surprised to learn that Russian gas is still flowing through Ukraine to Europe, Zelensky didn’t stop the transit. In this case maybe his criticism of Nestle could be a little bit too harsh?
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  #4803  
Old 21.03.2022, 15:13
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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But these actions are not enough because the war has not ended yet .
There may be no actions that NATO can carry out that would result in the end of the war - except for everyone losing of course - so nothing will be "enough".
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  #4804  
Old 21.03.2022, 15:22
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Paywall... The Times report that Marina Ovsyannikova has been denounced as British spy.
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Kirill Kleimyonov, head of Channel One’s news division, appeared on the news programme today claiming she was a British spy. “Not long before [the protest], according to our information, Marina Ovsyannikova spoke with the British embassy,” Kleimyonov claimed. “Who among you has had a telephone conversation with a foreign embassy?

“Being emotionally impulsive is one thing, but treason is quite another. And when a person betrays their country . . . coldly, duplicitously, in return for a bonus . . .”

He added: “Treason is always someone’s personal choice . . . But you need to call things what they are.”
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  #4805  
Old 21.03.2022, 15:51
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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They could do more though....I think.
The obvious answer is that Switzerland should send troops in.

Here's why:
  • They aren't in NATO so there's no danger of escalation.
  • They have a fully-trained large army who frankly, could do with the practice.
  • They have lots of bunkers so are well equipped to deal with any retaliation.
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  #4806  
Old 21.03.2022, 16:03
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The obvious answer is that Switzerland should send troops in.

Here's why:
  • They aren't in NATO so there's no danger of escalation.
  • They have a fully-trained large army who frankly, could do with the practice.
  • They have lots of bunkers so are well equipped to deal with any retaliation.
And Putin has relatives here!
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  #4807  
Old 21.03.2022, 16:26
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Despicable.

15:18 Concentration camp survivor 'killed in Kharkiv attack'

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The administration of the Buchenwald memorial centre in Germany has said a man who survived a number of concentration camps during World War Two was killed in the bombing on his home in the north-eastern city of Kharkiv on Friday, according to his relatives.

Boris Romantschenko, who was 96, "actively campaigned for the memory of the crimes of Nazism and was vice president of the Buchenwald-Dora International Committee", they said in a series of tweets.
Buchenwald memorial centre's tweets say he survived four concentration camps, including Buchenwald and Bergen-Belsen.

https://twitter.com/Buchenwald_Dora
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  #4808  
Old 21.03.2022, 16:56
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Of course more can be done because the war has not stopped. At the same time, the international reaction is completely different to 2014 when Crimea was invaded: intelligence sharing, send weapons, hosting refugees, economic sanctions. But these actions are not enough because the war has not ended yet
Why should a war be stopped within a month's time? Most conflicts go on for years or decades. It'll end when Putin runs out of cannon fodder.
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  #4809  
Old 21.03.2022, 17:19
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I'm sure they could, especially supplying longer range/higher altitude SAM systems. But then they would need to have trainers on the ground in order to have Ukrainians learn their usage. A very fine line to navigate.

What would you suggest they do?
I wish I knew!...
It's just frustrating to see the entire world blackmailed by Putin and his cronies.

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Of course more can be done because the war has not stopped. At the same time, the international reaction is completely different to 2014 when Crimea was invaded: intelligence sharing, send weapons, hosting refugees, economic sanctions. But these actions are not enough because the war has not ended yet

Back to out little sphere of influence, don't vote anymore for idiots who support Putin in our countries of origin. And here in CH: don't put much effort trying to find arguments to save contracts with Russian companies.
I agree.
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  #4810  
Old 21.03.2022, 17:40
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The obvious answer is that Switzerland should send troops in.

Here's why:
  • They aren't in NATO so there's no danger of escalation.
  • They have a fully-trained large army who frankly, could do with the practice.
  • They have lots of bunkers so are well equipped to deal with any retaliation.
Are you a member ??
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  #4811  
Old 21.03.2022, 17:45
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I was surprised to learn that Russian gas is still flowing through Ukraine to Europe, Zelensky didn’t stop the transit. In this case maybe his criticism of Nestle could be a little bit too harsh?
This is indeed a bizarre situation. Europe pays Russia for gas. Russia pays Ukraine for transit of gas. No signs of this being stopped.
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  #4812  
Old 21.03.2022, 17:46
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The obvious answer is that Switzerland should send troops in.

Here's why:
  • They aren't in NATO so there's no danger of escalation.
  • They have a fully-trained large army who frankly, could do with the practice.
  • They have lots of bunkers so are well equipped to deal with any retaliation.
Switzerland is a neutral country. I think freezing those damned oligarchs' accounts would suffice....but for real...I don't know why but I suspect the ordinary Russians working for some company here and living on a salary will be the ones harassed but of course I have to have trust blah blah blah.
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  #4813  
Old 21.03.2022, 18:24
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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NATO are cowards.
No, NATO are not being stupid and starting WW3.

Tom
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  #4814  
Old 21.03.2022, 18:35
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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NATO are cowards.
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No, NATO are not being stupid and starting WW3.

Tom
First of all, NATO is a defensive alliance and its principle task is to defend its members.

Ukraine, tragically, is not a member. And for that both NATO and Ukraine are to blame.

NATO, or more precisely the US, for the stupid 2008 announcement that Ukraine and Georgia would eventually become members - but then never providing a proper path for them to join. Ukraine for having been a mess the first 15-20 years after the Cold War. During that time, the Balts and others got their act together, built stable democracies and armies, and were granted membership.
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  #4815  
Old 21.03.2022, 18:43
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Slammer, Iím confused by one thing. Why arenít the Russian speaking regions of Eastern and South Eastern Ukraine welcoming their liberators with open arms?

I suspect that while the people may be ethnically more Russian than Ukrainian they are anti-Putin.
Has anybody asked them?
I think that the big mistake that people are making is that they are looking at this 19th century style conflict with the hearts and minds of 21st century liberals and they are unable to square the circle, the sums don't add up and it makes people confused. EFers seem to have a hard time here.
I don't digest as to having a military mind and I believe that anybody showing such traits should be in therapy, sure that there is a pill somewhere.
But this is an old school war, it's: "you have something I want, give it to me now!" It's a war of stones, clubs, spears and axes, it is putting a town to the sword and salting the earth.
Thermo's, drones, tank and nukes are just cosmetics and the moment you realize this is the moment this conflict makes sense.
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  #4816  
Old 21.03.2022, 18:52
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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But this is an old school war, it's: "you have something I want, give it to me now!" It's a war of stones, clubs, spears and axes, it is putting a town to the sword and salting the earth.
Thermo's, drones, tank and nukes are just cosmetics and the moment you realize this is the moment this conflict makes sense.
Makes sense? For whom? Both sides are losing this war. Were brains not en vogue in the 19th century?
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  #4817  
Old 21.03.2022, 18:55
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Has anybody asked them?
I think that the big mistake that people are making is that they are looking at this 19th century style conflict with the hearts and minds of 21st century liberals and they are unable to square the circle, the sums don't add up and it makes people confused. EFers seem to have a hard time here.
I don't digest as to having a military mind and I believe that anybody showing such traits should be in therapy, sure that there is a pill somewhere.
But this is an old school war, it's: "you have something I want, give it to me now!" It's a war of stones, clubs, spears and axes, it is putting a town to the sword and salting the earth.
Thermo's, drones, tank and nukes are just cosmetics and the moment you realize this is the moment this conflict makes sense.
That, I donít know. But I would like to understand why the Russian speakers are not supportive of the Russian invasion?

Why hasnít Kharkiv put down it weapons and pulled out the bouquets?
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  #4818  
Old 21.03.2022, 18:59
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Makes sense? For whom? Both sides are losing this war. Were brains not en vogue in the 19th century?
You have just proven my point, were this AD 1822, even 1922, it would make perfect military sense. Brains included
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  #4819  
Old 21.03.2022, 19:01
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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And Putin has relatives here!
Yeah. I am glad we can still joke....here.
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  #4820  
Old 21.03.2022, 19:06
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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You have just proven my point, were this AD 1822, even 1922, it would make perfect military sense. Brains included
Clausewitz would disagree.
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