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  #481  
Old 19.05.2014, 14:53
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

What we are experiencing now is a calm-before-the-storm. The elections are 6 days away, and Vlad won't let them go ahead uninterrupted. Expect something dramatic around Thurs-Fri from the Russian/pro-Russian side, perhaps even in Kiev itself.


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  #482  
Old 19.05.2014, 15:33
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Why should I be required to quote links or sources when I'm not the one making the assertions?
If Russia has "coordinated the separatist movement," where has that been unequivocally documented?

If Russia is "breeding armed gangs and anarchy," where has that been unequivocally documented?

If Russia is "setting the stage for Russia to send in their army in to restore order," where has that been unequivocally documented?
Meanwhile, we know (here and here) US State Department officials were involved in Kiev events from the start, even showing support for the coup.

And we know (here) that the US hastened to get the usurpers in Kiev to sign on to $17 billion in debt (to the US) through the Washington-based International Monetary Fund — a debt obligation and influence-peddling trade-off that Yanukovich was understandably hesitant to embrace.

So it's no secret that Washington is up to its elbows in the whole sordid affair, but despite all the accusations being parroted about Russia's alleged involvement, nobody seems able to produce any compelling evidence — just more parroting.

Meanwhile, here's your "on the spot" report.
About "the US hastened to get the usurpers in Kiev to sign on to $17 billion in debt (to the US) through the Washington-based International Monetary Fund"

The debt is owed to the IMF, not to the US. IMF is led by a French lady and gets its funding from 188 countries.
They need the money for a number of reasons including the fact that the Russians unilaterally increased gas prices and also stopped paying for the Crimean naval base; which was handed over to the Russians by people who did not own it:

About "Meanwhile, here's your "on the spot" report

Thanks but how does a report written by somebody sitting in Montreal qualify as "on.the.spot"?
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  #483  
Old 19.05.2014, 15:43
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

In other news, in Mariupol, workers of the local steel factories have taken the city back from masked pro-Russian gunmen:

Quote:
“There’s no family in Mariupol that’s not connected to the steel industry,” Mr. Zinchenko said in an interview at his desk, decorated with a miniature Ukrainian flag. He said he had negotiated a truce with local representatives of the Donetsk People’s Republic, but not the group’s leaders.
Mr. Akhmetov’s statement spelled out the daunting problems for the regional economy should the Donetsk People’s Republic win its struggle with the Kiev government.
“Nobody in the world will recognize it,” he said in the videotaped statement. “The structure of our economy is coal, industry, metallurgy, energy, machine works, chemicals and agriculture and all the enterprises tied to these sectors. We will come under huge sanctions, we will not sell our products, cannot produce. This means the stopping of factories, this means unemployment, this means poverty.”
Russia itself exports steel, so it has never been a significant market for the region’s output.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle18711105/

Another bright point may be if front-runner Poroshenko is elected as the new President of Ukraine next weekend, maybe he can pull people from the fringes back to the center and issues can be settled in non-violent ways. If Putin can consider Poroshenko to be someone he can do business with, then he might tone down the provocative media rhetoric and call off the dogs in the east (altho once they have been let off their leashes, it might not be so easy to call them back )

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After weeks of threatening an invasion, Mr. Putin now seems to have closed off the possibility of a Crimea-style land grab in the east, and even issued guarded support for the election to go forward.


“You can have a kind of a civil war and this kind of gray zone and be completely separated and face a higher degree of economic sanctions,” said Adrian Karatnycky, an expert on Ukraine at the Atlantic Council, describing the choice facing Mr. Putin. “Or you can see if it’s possible to bargain with this new guy, who has businesses in Russia, who has never been known to be a big ultranationalist.”


Mr. Poroshenko is a veteran of Ukrainian politics, having served as foreign minister under President Viktor A. Yushchenko; as economics minister under the ousted president, Viktor F. Yanukovych; and as a longtime member of Parliament, including a stint as speaker.


“The reasoning on Poroshenko is that he is a pragmatist and he was in the Yanukovych government,” Mr. Karatnycky said. “He is a person who is a dealmaker. From that point of view, it may mean that Putin is willing to give it a chance of trying to get something out of this.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/19/wo...ns-stance.html
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  #484  
Old 20.05.2014, 01:27
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Putin announced today he will withdraw troops from Ukraine border. Sounds positive but is this the fourth time he said that? I am losing count - anyway it does confirm the troops are still there, otherwise there would be nobody to withdraw!!!
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  #485  
Old 20.05.2014, 04:15
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Putin announced today he will withdraw troops from Ukraine border. Sounds positive but is this the fourth time he said that? I am losing count - anyway it does confirm the troops are still there, otherwise there would be nobody to withdraw!!!
he never said ALL troops
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  #486  
Old 23.05.2014, 21:20
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

I just found this today. It is now a couple of weeks old. Victoria Nuland is at a Foreign Affairs hearing and is getting a hammering. For those who don't know, Victoria Nuland (US Secretary of State for European Affairs) has been caught red-handed interfering in the Ukraine political processes, and filmed feeding cookies to petrol bomb throwing thugs (or in her parlance "freedom loving democrats"). We don't seem to see stuff like this in our self censored media . . .
http://rt.com/news/157808-nuland-grilled-ukraine-costs/
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  #487  
Old 23.05.2014, 23:34
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I just found this today. It is now a couple of weeks old. Victoria Nuland is at a Foreign Affairs hearing and is getting a hammering. For those who don't know, Victoria Nuland (US Secretary of State for European Affairs) has been caught red-handed interfering in the Ukraine political processes, and filmed feeding cookies to petrol bomb throwing thugs (or in her parlance "freedom loving democrats"). We don't seem to see stuff like this in our self censored media . . .
http://rt.com/news/157808-nuland-grilled-ukraine-costs/
Cookies? Surely matches would be more useful?

So where is the "red-handed interfering" and "film of her feeding cookies ....."?

Rt.com is according to their web site "RT is the first Russian 24/7 English-language news channel which brings the Russian view on global news."

I an sure you can find stuff like this in many Russian views on global........
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  #488  
Old 24.05.2014, 09:34
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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. . .

So where is the "red-handed interfering" and "film of her feeding cookies ....."?

. . .
interference:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/vid...l-leaked-video

cookies:
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  #489  
Old 24.05.2014, 12:30
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

In post 486 you wrote "We don't seem to see stuff like this in our self censored media . . ."

And now you are quoting from "our self censored media..."

So we do see stuff like this in "our self censored media"? In fact it is the only source you can find for this video?
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Old 24.05.2014, 23:12
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Even if I have many reasons not to want to live in Russia nor even visit as a tourist, Putin has a point on the geostrategic level when he states that the issue in Ukraine is about the belief in a unipolar or multipolar world order.
A very anti-Putin but extremely interesting article in the German Philosophie Magazin this month about the strategic thinking of Russian elite. Key words is Eurasianism. It's a very Russian-French thing. Easter Europe and UK are unipolarists. Germans are still thinking about what they are - don't count on Merkel to think quick.
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Old 25.05.2014, 12:49
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

The election in Ukraine today seems to be proceeding relatively quietly but in the Donetsk region alone only 426 out of 2,430 polling stations were open, and none in the main city.

I wonder why the rebels do not allow polling stations if joining Russia is really as popular as they claim?
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  #492  
Old 25.05.2014, 16:05
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Because so far it is a "coup d'état" and and a "junta" but after elections Yanukovich cannot be any longer used as a "legitate president in exile".
However, rumors are that Putin struck a deal with the president-to-be, so the poor separatists might be left without support.
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Old 25.05.2014, 16:14
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Because so far it is a "coup d'état" and and a "junta" but after elections Yanukovich cannot be any longer used as a "legitate president in exile".
However, rumors are that Putin struck a deal with the president-to-be, so the poor separatists might be left without support.
Looks like Crimea will be expensive for Putin, for example, 25% of Crimeans are pensioners and the cost to Russia of paying these pensions will be more than the rent of the Naval base they took over. Of course, I assume Russians hope for tax revenues that will pay for everything.

I heard that Putin wants to make Crimea a sort of Las Vegas with casinos and he has put such a proposal to the Russian parliament.
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Old 25.05.2014, 16:56
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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However, rumors are that Putin struck a deal with the president-to-be, so the poor separatists might be left without support.
No need for rumors or deals. Any president of Ukraine in all eternity will have to face reality and do normal politics with Russia like Canada does with the US or S-Korea with China. Why do you think the VERY nationalistic anti.russian orange revolution turned into a club for Realpolitiker? It will be the same this time. Poroshenko is already showing the way. The ride will just be bumpier.

The separatists are not there to separate anything. Their role is to prepare a change of constitution and make Ukraine a federal state. Without Crimea, the russian-speaking Ukrainians have to change to have majority in Kiev ever again. Moscow doesn't care who is in power in Kiev, Moscow just doesn't want NATO at its doorstep. It's all there is in this Ukraine crisis.
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  #495  
Old 26.05.2014, 11:32
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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About "the US hastened to get the usurpers in Kiev to sign on to $17 billion in debt (to the US) through the Washington-based International Monetary Fund"

The debt is owed to the IMF, not to the US. IMF is led by a French lady and gets its funding from 188 countries...
IMF's headquarters are in Washington, D.C., United States. It is an extension of the Bretton Woods system. Both the IMF and the World Bank (also based in Washington) were created to make the Bretton Woods system more politically acceptable and to influence the distribution of new (Federal Reserve US dollar) banknotes as a worldwide reserve. This arrangement has benefitted the US oligarchs and their friends at the Federal Reserve more than anybody else.

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...About "Meanwhile, here's your "on the spot" report

Thanks but how does a report written by somebody sitting in Montreal qualify as "on.the.spot"?
"On the spot" means without delay, not necessarily on-location. In any case, the cited media content is pretty much all on-location, regardless of where the author was when he compiled it into a single collection.
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Last edited by Texaner; 26.05.2014 at 20:12.
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  #496  
Old 26.05.2014, 13:27
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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IMF's headquarters are in Washington, D.C., United States. It is an extension of the Breton Woods system. Both the IMF and the World Bank (also based in Washington) were created to make the Breton Woods system more politically acceptable and to influence the distribution of new (Federal Reserve US dollar) banknotes as a worldwide reserve. This arrangement has benefitted the US oligarchs and their friends at the Federal Reserve more than anybody else.


"On the spot" means without delay, not necessarily on-location. In any case, the cited media content is pretty much all on-location, regardless of where the author was when he compiled it into a single collection.
About "IMF's headquarters are in Washington, D.C., United States." So you believe worldwide football is run by Switzerland because the headquarters of FIFA is in Zurich?
Anyway you agree the debt is to the IMF not to the USA.

BTW, looks like Russia will have to pour more than $17Bn into the Crimea to keep it alive.

When I asked for an "On the spot" report I meant from the scene of the event. I prefer to believe the reports from the newspapers that have reporters in Ukraine rather than a blog writer on the other side of the world!
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  #497  
Old 26.05.2014, 13:42
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Every single news source you quoted is from LewRockwell, an anarchist/Libretarian website? That's definitive proof to support your points? If accept everything that one news source puts out as facts, then you really aren't any better than those you accuse of following the "the synchronized, monotoned chorus of the western (US) media", are you?...
Material posted on LewRockwell.com draws on a variety of outside sources for its content, especially when it comes to current events. The fact that the articles I cited are from one repository should be less important than the range of cited documentation that they reference externally, demonstrating beyond a shadow of a doubt that the US and its "friends" have been intervening, manipulating and pushing things in one direction. I cite LewRockwell.com precisely because the site is US-based, yet typically tells more than any mainstream US media sources do, providing a strong contrast to the synchronized, monotoned chorus of the western (US) media.

And as long as you're asking, I think that such a contrast is better (i.e., more balance-promoting, less US-centric) than the synchronized, monotoned chorus of the western (US) media alone.

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...So, to sum up... I think it's hard to deny that Russia's hand isn't directly involved with what's happening there.
So at best you've given evidence that Russia is playing a role — though hardly as substantial as that of the US. Yet "Streklov" — a former Russian secret service man from Moscow who is not hiding who he is — is rumoured to have been fired from the FSB in 2013, Mozhaev is wanted in Russia on criminal charges, and Ponomarev, Tkachenko, Tarasov, Karetnyi and others are described (according to the cited article) as neo-Nazis (putting them on the wrong side) and therefore not likely to have direct support from Russia — in fact, not surprisingly, the article hardly cites any current "ties to Russian military" — and describes the alleged "leaders" of the East-Ukraine opposition as if they'd be warmly welcomed in the camp of the US/EU-supported coup-government and especially by its "Right Sector" contingent.

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...But aside from those examples, there is general support for these people coming out of Russian media...
I would expect the Russian media to support those who stand up for the predominantly Russian regions of eastern Ukraine.

But Russia "coordinated the separatist movement"? or Russia "breeding armed gangs and anarchy"? or Russia "setting the stage for Russia to send in their army in to restore order"? I really didn't see any unequivocal evidence of these claims among those linked articles.
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Last edited by Texaner; 26.05.2014 at 20:33.
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  #498  
Old 26.05.2014, 13:51
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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About "IMF's headquarters are in Washington, D.C., United States." So you believe worldwide football is run by Switzerland because the headquarters of FIFA is in Zurich?
No, but you made much of IMF being led by a French and being international, implying that somehow proves the US is not the prime beneficiary of the IMF's activities. The IMF is not only based in Washington, but is part of the Bretton Woods scheme, which benefits the US federal reserve more than any other entity.

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...When I asked for an "On the spot" report I meant from the scene of the event...
Maybe actually study the blog entry next time. The media content it cites are all directly "from the scene of the event" — regardless of who compiled it or where he was when he did so.

Last edited by Texaner; 26.05.2014 at 16:10.
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Old 26.05.2014, 14:31
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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No, but you made much of IMF being led by a French and being international, implying that somehow proves the US is not the prime beneficiary of the IMF's activities. The IMF is not only based in Washington, but is part of the Breton Woods scheme, which benefits the US federal reserve more than any other entity.


Maybe actually study the blog entry next time. The media content it cites are all directly "from the scene of the event" — regardless of who compiled it or where he was when he did so.
About "The IMF is not only based in Washington, but is part of the Breton Woods scheme, which benefits the US federal reserve more than any other entity."
Did you know "On 15 August 1971, the United States unilaterally terminated convertibility of the US dollar to gold. This brought the Bretton Woods system to an end"
And
"The IMF's role was fundamentally altered post 1971. It shifted to examining the economic policies of countries with IMF loan agreements to determine if a shortage of capital was due to economic fluctuations or economic policy. The new challenge is to promote and implement policy that reduces the frequency of crises among the emerging market countries, especially the middle-income countries that are open to massive capital outflows"
So you see the IMF is now an independent organisation concerned with supporting smaller countries like Ukraine.

About "The media content it cites are all directly "from the scene of the event" - As already mentioned I prefer to hear my news from people on site rather than from a third party who collects their content from unknown sources.

Anyway this is all history now and no longer relevant. Ukraine now has a new democratically elected president with a credible 54% vote (observed by independent international observers) so there can no longer be claims of illegal government in Kiev.
Let us hope he can make a success of his role and bring peace to the area.
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Old 26.05.2014, 16:17
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Did you know "On 15 August 1971, the United States unilaterally terminated convertibility of the US dollar to gold. This brought the Bretton Woods system to an end"...
Did you know that, despite the "end" of Bretton Woods, the IMF and World Bank — two core elements of the system — remain fully functional, continuing they're roles despite the "end" of the system?

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...Anyway this is all history now and no longer relevant...
Hardly. The IMF will do its job and further ruin the Ukrainian economy, just as it has done elsewhere. It's not "history" — it's the sad future of Ukraine:

Regime Change in Ukraine and the IMF’s Bitter “Economic Medicine”
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