there are *allegedly* videos coming out of ukranians brutally torturing russian pows and filming it. i guess it must also be russian propoganda?

Links please.

www.rt.com I guess.

Please provide a source and/or evidence for your claims?

I would obviously never condone or excuse this kind of thing, but you can at least understand how it could happen after Ukranian soldiers have literally watched Russian soldiers indiscriminately bomb and/or shoot your family, friends and home. The level of hatred and fury this would provoke would strain the minds of many people and drive them to irrational acts and even vengeful atrocities. War breeds this kind of thing.

Let's keep the chronology here. With all due respect, you don't need to explain the sources that you were not even provided.

At that point I think I could only write that "I love my mother" and vushka would still groan at me.

Links or didn't happen.

With all due respect, I am free to respond however I choose without your or anyone else's approval. I will await further evidence and I read the RT article which of course is not 'verified'. However, I would actually not be too surprised IF it were true as it is not be the first time prisoners have been tortured in modern conflicts, the US/UK had occurrences of it in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Given that the Russians are invading and indiscriminately razing Ukraine and targeting civilian populations, women, children, old people, in some of the most cruel, barbaric and inhuman ways possible, then I can fully understand how these kind of retributive acts COULD occur.

But yeah, lets wait to see what evidence rolls in as to whether it's true in this case or not.

Sorry Chuff, I was a bit rough with that. What I meant is - if Ukrainian government says they are and they will treat prisoners in a decent way in contrast to Russian's army behavior, then I would like to see proofs that they are not doing that.

I agree with you that one can have orders and guidelines from your government, but if things get personal, then probably it won't stop a soldier who lost his loved ones.

War is intrinsically littered with extra-judicial killing, torture, rape, looting and abuse outside conventions and rules of warfare. Just that now this is the first conflict in the European theatre where such events are being captured and streamed in 4K via mobile phones and drones.

There is no excuse for such behaviour, just mitigating circumstances. But Ukraine can't afford to give Russia anything real they can feed into their fake news propaganda.

Read in FT today: "Zelensky said he was “99.9 per cent sure” the Russian president had thought Ukraine would be waiting for the invasion with “flowers and smiles” — going so far as to send troops with parade dress for a victory celebration in Kyiv apparently planned for the third or fourth day of the war."

The full scale invasion was such a blunder that honestly believing that the Russian army would be welcomed as liberators is the only reason I can think of that could explain such a horribly bad decision.

Moldova is a neutral country, they had it written in their constitution (imposed by Russian general Lebedev in 1991)...and I think MD has 6-7k soldiers tops...
The "funny" part, but not at all surprising, was that when President Maia Sandu (this lady rocks) has recently announced their country's plans to join EU the separatist region Transnistria was furious because they haven't been consulted.... Moldova has to play a very wise game, they are too small and too Russian infiltrated not to. Just imagine they are a country whose ambassador in Moscow was admonished because of a small anti-war protest in front of the Russian embassy in Chisinau and they were accused of anti-Russian attitudes.. Russia gets to bully everyone in this region. I hope they will fight to achieve a status similar to the Baltic republics, minus Nato, most probably.

i should have wrote 'allegedly'. sorry but i won't post links as i assume it will get me banned.

id guess such *alleged* war crimes will be continually denied and derided as russian propoganda... until they are proven true, at which point they will be rationalised and justified.

An appeal from the regiment of Azov to Russians (and to some of the members of English forum, it seems). I deepl-translated it for you:

"Catch the thief!" is usually the loudest shout of all by the thief himself.
Kremlin propaganda calls us Nazis and fascists, and calls ourselves liberators who have come to "denazify" Ukraine.
Today, the whole world lives in a time of great deceptions, big lies and tiny truths. Billions of dollars are spent to create the illusion of greatness and to promote the anti-human ideas of the "Russian world. The same one that brings destruction, death, suffering, hunger and fear.
The only weapon in this struggle remains the Truth.
And the truth is this: our land was attacked by a treacherous monster, and it is our right and duty to defend it.
At the forefront of this defense stands Azov.
Azov is a National Guard unit that was formed from volunteers in 2014, after Russia took away Krym, part of the Luhansk and Donetsk regions. It is a unit in which Ukrainians, Russians, Jews, Greeks, Georgians, Crimean Tatars and Belarusians serve. In this unit for 8 years soldiers of different faiths have been defending hand in hand: Orthodox, Catholics, Protestants, Gentiles, Jews and Muslims. Where the majority speaks Russian.
We despise Nazism and Stalinism. Because our country suffered the most from these totalitarian regimes and false ideologies.
Russia bombs Babin Yar, where the victims of twentieth-century Nazism are buried. Putinists drop tons of shells on hospitals, schools, kindergartens, and churches. Putin's soldiers shoot the elderly, kill children and pregnant women, just as the Gilers once did.
Nazism is the unquenchable need to kill people who dare to be free. It is the certainty of its right to be a certain super nation and it is the certainty of its right to rule over other nations while raping and pillaging other nations. Doesn't it remind you of anything?
The difference is that Azov was, is and will be a shield for Ukraine until the occupant leaves our country. We have never attacked anyone, and Azov's main goal is to protect and develop its country, its people, and the lives of our citizens are more important than the ambitions of any politician.
We, the defenders of the hero-city of Mariupol, have taken up the shield and sword, which protect not only Ukraine from the forces of evil and lies, but the entire civilized world from the plague of the 21st century. If we put the sword down, tomorrow the same fate will befall Kyiv and Lviv, and the day after tomorrow Warsaw, Berlin and Paris. To thinking Russian people we wish to overthrow that government, which sends its sinews to certain death for the sake of false illusions of the poisoned reality, instead of that the people of Russia lived, loved and developed.
The Azov Regiment

That's the problem when one is surrounded by a bunch of yes men highly trained to never say no.

wikipedia and others describe them as a neo-nazi group..

you're the first to complain about Russian misinformation and lies yet you are doing the same on EF regularly, especially with this post

What's the lie here?

And how does the most reliable info source describe the Wagner group?

Oh. Until they are proven true. Not unless they are proven to be true. So you know them to be true. Nice to know you don't need evidence. Just unverified reports (aka made up stuff) from RT.

Nope. If you read the answer from Chuff.
or litespeed

you'll see that it doesn't fit your narrative.


Funny thing. In WW2, Japanese soldiers were told of terrible atrocities visited upon them if they surrendered to the Allies. They were amazed they were mostly treated* humanely.

* See litespeed's quote.

It's their answer on the request of one of the most famous Russian journalists.

Just wait a few days, if they exist then they will turn up on the pervy bits of 4Chan.