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  #5201  
Old 31.03.2022, 00:45
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Absolutely. Ukraine was pummeled by arms and Nazi ideology in order to create a threat to Russia.

Does that justify killing civilians for 8 years?
Now I understand who is writing under this account.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqx0m29WHIU
Did you lose your job as Ambassador after this interview and now work as a paid troll on the European forums?
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  #5202  
Old 31.03.2022, 07:05
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The fact that you did not quote my post in its entirety speaks volumes
Oh, sorry. I didn't realise I had to address every sentence. No problem.

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Dear greenmount, please see my above posts - I condemn the war.
Jolly good.
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Unfortunately, the outcoming "Western" narrative (here I am talking about media outlets only) is that of the Russian "Other" or Us against Them. Again.
See above.
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There was a widely circulated pic from a London metro saying: a good Russian is a dead Russian.
So? There's nasty people living in the UK? Tell us something we don't know. Here's a story about some Russian tossers - also featuring a pig.

There is no narrative of Russians Bad, West and Ukraine Good. But Russia invaded a sovereign democratic nation and started killing people and maybe I'm just a Russiaphobe, but I do think that, and causing 4 million people to become refugees, is is a very very bad thing to do.

Last edited by NotAllThere; 31.03.2022 at 07:18.
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  #5203  
Old 31.03.2022, 07:40
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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there is a distinct tendency that the accusation of lies and propaganda will soon remain the only intelligible argument.
Wow, this is another level of denial. Soon on EF it will be fine to deny the holocaust, because... "free speech yo".
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  #5204  
Old 31.03.2022, 08:04
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Again, how do these facts justify the human cost? And please do not say collateral damage.
Easily, take the human cost out of the equation, the military mind will try to keep civilian casualties as low as possible as civilian casualties are bad for the image. Unless you need them as, say, human shields, or propaganda tools, nothing gains more sympathy than crying children. You can have your enemy kill so many that perhaps they get squeamish and stop the attack. Or force your enemy to have to feed, clothe and shelter them, thus draining their supplies while sustaining your own.
To the military non combatants are a hinderance and at worse a liability, something to get rid of as soon as possible. They are not in the business to deal with you and me, they are there to kill the enemy and if you get in the way then you become that enemy...
Having said that I think that the medieval armies were far more creative in dealing with civilians, so it looks like some progress has been made.
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  #5205  
Old 31.03.2022, 08:05
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I don't know about that. Ordinary Russians bear responsibility as well. Every Russian soldier in Ukraine bears responsibility for their actions. Obviously not the same as Putin and the other crooks - but they are part of it. Or do also you believe that "ordinary Germans" had no idea what was going on during the late Nazi years? They knew and let it happen, at the very least.
Unfortunately, history is full of barbaric episodes and what is more frightening is that neighbours, colleagues, acquaintances (even friends), had turned against people with whom until recently they had had normal, even friendly relations. It's disgusting, it is inhuman. But please note that propaganda against the Jews and the biggest Lies were written years before these atrocities had happened, so many scoundrels felt entitled to have these feelings and to express them openly, or even act upon them, because the jews "had it coming"...
That's what manipulation does, that's what propaganda does.
Others were just afraid they would be persecuted if they didn't fit into the "atmosphere", or were passive (you can see this attitude today, "I don't want to take sides"), or didn't quite understand, or didn't quite know, or felt too powerless.
Do you think people have learned anything and wouldn't rinse and repeat if the same conditions would be met? Luckily there are laws, institutions and a free press and there are checks and balances and public reactions to any deviation from humanity and common sense. But liberal democracy is never granted and people should never take it for granted.
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  #5206  
Old 31.03.2022, 08:28
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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This polling institute is apparently quite respected. I think the approval numbers are a mix of a rally around the flag, state propaganda (seeing another war on TV then we see), and fear. What is striking is the number of people who see the country moving in the right direction.
oh, i truly believe that the numbers are correct
i even think that they are a bit low. true number would be 99.9(9)%
i told previously, there is no good russians. they are all putin
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  #5207  
Old 31.03.2022, 08:30
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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i told previously, there is no good russians. they are all putin
That is a crappy thing to say and also objectively completely untrue.
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  #5208  
Old 31.03.2022, 08:36
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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That is a crappy thing to say and also objectively completely untrue.
you said that before the war and continue to do this after all that happened, seeing increasing support of the invasion
anyway, am going to insist on my statement. infinite small value of russians against the war doesnt change the fact that the was is fueled by russian's always hates ukrainians
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  #5209  
Old 31.03.2022, 08:38
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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you said that before the war and continue to do this after all that happened, seeing increasing support of the invasion
Regardless of what is going on with the war, to say there are no good Russians and that they are all like Putin is just absolute poisonous BS and you demean yourself with statements like that.
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  #5210  
Old 31.03.2022, 08:41
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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That is a crappy thing to say and also objectively completely untrue.
It’s like saying there are no good Germans they are all like Hitler.

It’s a totally ridiculous thing to say. There are good and bad people of all nationalities.
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  #5211  
Old 31.03.2022, 08:42
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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you said that before the war and continue to do this after all that happened, seeing increasing support of the invasion
anyway, am going to insist on my statement. infinite small value of russians against the war doesnt change the fact that the was is fueled by russian's always hates ukrainians
I have really tried to figure out the atmosphere in Russia vis-a-vis this war and to be honest that is no easy task because people are either reluctant or afraid to talk in front of the camera, but many from those interviewed appeared not to like Putin and his actions, and I mean those under say 30 years of age, at least urbanites, don't buy Putin's shite. Teenagers and early 20s were decisively the most anti-Putin demographic group in my observation, as well as those in their fifties or early sixties who complained they let this guy for too long in power. (have watched some stuff on YouTube if you wonder about the source)
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Old 31.03.2022, 08:44
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Regardless of what is going on with the war, to say there are no good Russians and that they are all like Putin is just absolute poisonous BS and you demean yourself with statements like that.
i dont care about your or someone's else opinion about me
unlike you i read what "good" russians saying about yesterday's negotiations in istanbul, i listen intercepted phone calls of ru soldiers to their wifes, read reports about raping 12-16 years old girls
do you think its all putin doing? think again
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  #5213  
Old 31.03.2022, 08:44
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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It’s like saying there are no good Germans they are all like Hitler.

It’s a totally ridiculous thing to say. There are good and bad people of all nationalities.
give me a good microscope to find good russians out there
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Old 31.03.2022, 08:46
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I have really tried to figure out the atmosphere in Russia vis-a-vis this war and to be honest that is no easy task because people are either reluctant or afraid to talk in front of the camera, but many from those interviewed appeared not to like Putin and his actions, and I mean those under say 30 years of age, at least urbanites, don't buy Putin's shite.
srsly? while ukrainians unarmed stopping ru tanks, russians too afraid to say their opinion? f&%&k them then
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Old 31.03.2022, 08:52
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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srsly? while ukrainians unarmed stopping ru tanks, russians too afraid to say their opinion? f&%&k them then
They'll come along. Well at least more and more of them because I don't think they will believe the official narrative for that long.
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Old 31.03.2022, 08:53
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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i dont care about your or someone's else opinion about me
unlike you i read what "good" russians saying about yesterday's negotiations in istanbul, i listen intercepted phone calls of ru soldiers to their wifes, read reports about raping 12-16 years old girls
do you think its all putin doing? think again
You are as much to be criticized for rhetoric like this as vushka is for his statements... two opposite sides of the coin. Anyone with any sense knows that all Russians are not to blame for what is happening. What you are doing essentially constitutes hate speech.

Last edited by Chuff; 31.03.2022 at 09:16.
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  #5217  
Old 31.03.2022, 09:28
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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give me a good microscope to find good russians out there
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You are as much to be criticized for rhetoric like this as vushka is for his statements... two opposite sides of the coin. Anyone with any sense knows that all Russians are not to blame for what is happening. What you are doing essentially constitutes hate speech.
spot on. not just the rhetoric but the blatant misinformation
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Old 31.03.2022, 09:32
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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i dont care about your or someone's else opinion about me
unlike you i read what "good" russians saying about yesterday's negotiations in istanbul, i listen intercepted phone calls of ru soldiers to their wifes, read reports about raping 12-16 years old girls
do you think its all putin doing? think again
Vladest, it is hard to take in everything that happens now in Ukraine for everyone, I can't even imagine what's going on with you, guys.

But please, please, try to cool down, take a deep breath before writing stuff, it is for your own good. This too shall pass. I myself felt many times, since the war has begun, like suffocating with anger at this regime and Putin and the way the lives of millions of people have been destroyed just because of the ambitions and ego of one man or of one clique.
Let's not say hard things, not everyone in Russia agrees with him and not everyone even knows what really happens in Ukraine. People are afraid to protest, are constantly manipulated and denied the truth, try to understand more before forming strong opinions.
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  #5219  
Old 31.03.2022, 09:38
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

It is a perfect example of what Putin has achieved. All of Eastern Europe (ok, with the exception of Serbia) will hate the Russians' guts for the next 20 years. If they didn't already before.

Well done, Vova.
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Old 31.03.2022, 09:46
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Let’s not forget that 70 years ago just about every other European national hated the Germans, with a passion.
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