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31.03.2022, 14:22
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I give up here. | | | | | what a relief
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31.03.2022, 14:30
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Russia has a population of more than 140 million.
To say that they are all bad and just don’t care is beyond ridiculous. | | | | | so you say all these brave 140 millions men and women cant remove one crazy dictator? | 
31.03.2022, 14:32
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | it seems that youtube embedding doesnt works properly here (as well as posts counting)...anyway, here is a link I want to share about fear and fearless: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwbGAuS_KwM | 
31.03.2022, 15:04
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | so you say all these brave 140 millions men and women cant remove one crazy dictator?  | | | | | Not without the help of the army or of someone from his close circle....he lives in a bunker for goodness sake, is paranoid about security and coupes etc and has been extremely paranoid for years!!!
Do you think Russia is a democracy, we gather by tens of thousands via FB, protests for a few days and someone will resign? We are talking about a dictatorship with a very repressive state apparatus.
Look | Quote: | |  | | | What I wrote above about fear... All independent media sources have been designated as "foreign agents" legally (! i.e. there is a legislative basis for this) - they had / have to identify themselves as such in each and every publication.
Some people left the country. And now, according to the most recent legislation, one can be imprisoned for up to 15 years for spreading fake news, first and foremost about the activities of the Russian army.  | | | | | | This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post: | | 
31.03.2022, 15:38
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Where did you get yours?
I actually opened a link posted by vushka and somewhere in the article it was said that both sides i.e. insurgents and UA army were using weapons that might have went out of control. I still have to trust that particular investigation and article but am willing to make a leap of faith.
It is absolutely regrettable but not what you see today - constant, systematic killing and destruction. | | | | | here's another good one if you're interested. its from 2015 but the way it describes western media it could be written today. https://www.thenation.com/article/ar...able-citizens/ It is a remarkable aspect of the current conflict that the people who have suffered that most as a result of the Ukrainian civil war, the eastern Ukrainians, have received little sympathy from Western media that are usually only too eager to cover the hardships brought about by war. The reason is neither hard to divine, nor is it lost on people we spoke to in Donbas. It is hard to escape the conclusion that the Russian-speaking population of the Donbas is being subjected to a conscious campaign of dehumanization that is being waged primarily by private armies funded by Ukrainian oligarchs. Because the people of the Donbas are ethnic Russian speakers, their suffering is discounted. | 
31.03.2022, 15:50
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | so you say all these brave 140 millions men and women cant remove one crazy dictator?  | | | | | If only it were that easy.
In just the same way that all 140 million plus of them are not Putin fanboys blindly following and agreeing with him they’re not all against him either.
What is it that you don’t get? Not all Russians are the same, just as all Ukrainians aren’t the same or any other nationality for that matter. Sharing a nationality with somebody doesn’t mean you have to think like them or agree with them.
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31.03.2022, 16:24
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | |
What is it that you don’t get? Not all Russians are the same, just as all Ukrainians aren’t the same or any other nationality for that matter. Sharing a nationality with somebody doesn’t mean you have to think like them or agree with them.
| | | | | To a degree.
I think there are cultural traits that mean a country will find it difficult to form a government that may align with one's own western ideals.
The people of some countries would appear to trend towards a more fascist type of rule, or at least of having apathy towards it. Italy and Spain would be in this category.
Russia could be classed as Fascist and would fit that moniker in the way it is being run.
Due to state-run propaganda, there is a degree of idolisation of the leader and as long as people have jobs, food on the table and somewhere to live, they are happy to accept the status quo.
Where it is changing in Russia now is that people, especially the younger ones, have more access to travel, foreign interests and so on and they want something different.
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31.03.2022, 16:36
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | |
where it is changing in russia now is that people, especially the younger ones, had more access to travel, foreign interests and so on and they want something different.
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31.03.2022, 16:50
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | here's another good one if you're interested. its from 2015 but the way it describes western media it could be written today. https://www.thenation.com/article/ar...able-citizens/ It is a remarkable aspect of the current conflict that the people who have suffered that most as a result of the Ukrainian civil war, the eastern Ukrainians, have received little sympathy from Western media that are usually only too eager to cover the hardships brought about by war. The reason is neither hard to divine, nor is it lost on people we spoke to in Donbas. It is hard to escape the conclusion that the Russian-speaking population of the Donbas is being subjected to a conscious campaign of dehumanization that is being waged primarily by private armies funded by Ukrainian oligarchs. Because the people of the Donbas are ethnic Russian speakers, their suffering is discounted. | | | | | According to the Ukraine 2001 census, only 38% of the Donbas population are ethnic Russian. I reserve my sympathy for the 62% who got dragged into a "Russian copy republic" and into an ongoing war since 2014 without any choice.
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31.03.2022, 17:12
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | To a degree.
I think there are cultural traits that mean a country will find it difficult to form a government that may align with one's own western ideals.
The people of some countries would appear to trend towards a more fascist type of rule, or at least of having apathy towards it. Italy and Spain would be in this category.
Russia could be classed as Fascist and would fit that moniker in the way it is being run.
Due to state-run propaganda, there is a degree of idolisation of the leader and as long as people have jobs, food on the table and somewhere to live, they are happy to accept the status quo.
Where it is changing in Russia now is that people, especially the younger ones, have more access to travel, foreign interests and so on and they want something different. | | | | | how are spain and italy "apathetic to fascism" today? or are you talking about last century?
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31.03.2022, 17:34
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | To a degree.
I think there are cultural traits that mean a country will find it difficult to form a government that may align with one's own western ideals.
The people of some countries would appear to trend towards a more fascist type of rule, or at least of having apathy towards it. Italy and Spain would be in this category.
Russia could be classed as Fascist and would fit that moniker in the way it is being run.
Due to state-run propaganda, there is a degree of idolisation of the leader and as long as people have jobs, food on the table and somewhere to live, they are happy to accept the status quo.
Where it is changing in Russia now is that people, especially the younger ones, have more access to travel, foreign interests and so on and they want something different. | | | | | So Italy, Spain and Russia... anyone else?
Last edited by Aleydis; 31.03.2022 at 17:38.
Reason: Quoted post reported to the site's administration
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31.03.2022, 18:05
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
so the rumours have been around for a while - that wikipedia will be banned in Russia.. latest development below (deepl translation, slightly corrected)
"Roskomnadzor will draw up a protocol on an administrative offense under Article 13.41 of the CAO RF against the Internet portal "Wikipedia" for the failure to remove inaccurate publicly significant materials, as well as other prohibited information.
In accordance with the request of the Prosecutor General's Office of Russia, Roskomnadzor sent a notice to the administration of the Internet resource to immediately remove misleading information on the subject of the special military operation of the Russian Armed Forces in Ukraine, aimed at misinforming Russian users.
According to Russian law, the owner of the site faces administrative liability in the form of a fine of up to 4 million rubles for failure to remove such unlawful materials in due time."
quoted from РоскомнадZop (Roskomnadzor) - note the spelling - the letter "Z", the one on the Russian tanks, does not even exist in the Russian alphabet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roskomnadzor (the irony)
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Last edited by Aleydis; 31.03.2022 at 18:07.
Reason: forgot the wiki link :)
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31.03.2022, 18:09
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | so the rumours have been around for a while - that wikipedia will be banned in Russia.. latest development below (deepl translation, slightly corrected)
"Roskomnadzor will draw up a protocol on an administrative offense under Article 13.41 of the CAO RF against the Internet portal "Wikipedia" for the failure to remove inaccurate publicly significant materials, as well as other prohibited information.
In accordance with the request of the Prosecutor General's Office of Russia, Roskomnadzor sent a notice to the administration of the Internet resource to immediately remove misleading information on the subject of the special military operation of the Russian Armed Forces in Ukraine, aimed at misinforming Russian users.
According to Russian law, the owner of the site faces administrative liability in the form of a fine of up to 4 million rubles for failure to remove such unlawful materials in due time."
quoted from РоскомнадZop (Roskomnadzor) - note the spelling - the letter "Z", the one on the Russian tanks, does not even exist in the Russian alphabet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roskomnadzor (the irony) | | | | | At this point Russia looks like it is going to go the way of China and adopt a policy of censorship, because nothing about the facts are going to change in the months and years following this conflict and if they don't want the Russian people to read the truth then they are just going to have to filter anything resembling free press.
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31.03.2022, 18:10
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Zürich
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | so the rumours have been around for a while - that wikipedia will be banned in Russia.. latest development below (deepl translation, slightly corrected)
"Roskomnadzor will draw up a protocol on an administrative offense under Article 13.41 of the CAO RF against the Internet portal "Wikipedia" for the failure to remove inaccurate publicly significant materials, as well as other prohibited information.
In accordance with the request of the Prosecutor General's Office of Russia, Roskomnadzor sent a notice to the administration of the Internet resource to immediately remove misleading information on the subject of the special military operation of the Russian Armed Forces in Ukraine, aimed at misinforming Russian users.
According to Russian law, the owner of the site faces administrative liability in the form of a fine of up to 4 million rubbles for failure to remove such unlawful materials in due time."
quoted from РоскомнадZop (Roskomnadzor) - note the spelling - the letter "Z", the one on the Russian tanks, does not even exist in the Russian alphabet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roskomnadzor (the irony) | | | | | you are welcome
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31.03.2022, 18:12
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | If only it were that easy.
In just the same way that all 140 million plus of them are not Putin fanboys blindly following and agreeing with him they’re not all against him either.
What is it that you don’t get? Not all Russians are the same, just as all Ukrainians aren’t the same or any other nationality for that matter. Sharing a nationality with somebody doesn’t mean you have to think like them or agree with them. | | | | | for sure it will not be easy. shifting off dictator was never and never will be easy
but it doesnt release russians from collective responsibility even if they are not the same
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31.03.2022, 18:15
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Germans were denazified and had the Marschall plan, they started from scratch with brand new tools and equipment to become the Wirtschaftwunder powerhouse of Europe and they were built up as a buffer to the Warsaw Pact.
You can’t compare the situation then with Russia today, or a post war Russia tomorrow.
I can however imagine a Marschall plan for Ukraine enabling the country to be the next Wirtschaftswunder. | | | | | According to Kremlin critic Mikhail Khodorkovsky who investigated (asked around his German aquintances) the denazification of Germany only appeared around 1968 (!), and he meant the time about which Hitler was finally seen as the global evil that he was and the German people started to clearly understand what Germany did during ww2. He doesn't have high hopes for Russia either. He doesn't believe this process will be a fast one i.e. seeing Putin as the global evil he currently really is.
This was in an interview with DW, I can look for the link if anyone is interested.
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31.03.2022, 18:22
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | so you say all these brave 140 millions men and women cant remove one crazy dictator?  | | | | | The vast majority of people in any country just want to live their lives in peace without being bothered by the government. They will not rise.
Furthermore, those who will rise against their government have a fundamental problem. The tyrant has the monopoly on violence. Which is why the tyrant keeps the army well paid and fed. Or terrorised in the lower ranks.
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31.03.2022, 18:40
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Not before Russia is denazified and demilitarised. Who would want to invest money in the country with a crazy and violent neighbour that can destroy your business with a missile any time? | | | | | That is exactly what you want, a country with a strong economy between you and your enemy. That is what post war Germany was to the allies.
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31.03.2022, 18:50
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | how are spain and italy "apathetic to fascism" today? or are you talking about last century? | | | | | Nationalism in a greater degree is one step away from Fascism. Italy, for example has had problems with a 'proper' democracy for ages.
Short-term coalition governments and instability are crying out for someone to step in and rule the country properly.
There are political parties in gaining momentum in Italy which could only push it further right.
The population can't seem to see this. May be they don't care.
Maybe apathy isn't the right word. May be it's 'tendency.'
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31.03.2022, 18:52
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | So Italy, Spain and Russia... anyone else? | | | | | Which part of my post did you feel you needed to report to the site admin?
Maybe it was all of it?
Anyone else?
Worryingly, yes.
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