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01.04.2022, 17:05
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Back of a fag packet calcuculation:
Initial levels after explosion would give a yearly figure of 60,000 REM.
This was picked up by local monitoring equipment.
The maximum safe level for radiation workers is 5 REM per year.
If the soldiers are actually digging in the soil, without protective equipment and they've been there for a month then the dose could be 5000 REM
This is about 0.07 Sv/Hr which gives a monthly dose of 50 Sv
If the actual dose they received was 1/50 of this, it would still give them acute radiation poisoning.
Here's that pretty chart: https://xkcd.com/radiation/ | 
01.04.2022, 18:00
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Which part of my post did you feel you needed to report to the site admin?
Maybe it was all of it?
Anyone else?
Worryingly, yes. | | | | | Tom, I had a problem with this statement as it contains a line, which I would not myself cross.
"I think there are cultural traits that mean a country will find it difficult to form a government that may align with one's own western ideals.
The people of some countries would appear to trend towards a more fascist type of rule"
WTF, what are these Western ideals anyway?
I do not bother to report the usual blather by the, so to say usual suspects, vladest among them, but yours was of belief AND substance.
Could you answer my question marked as item 3 in post 5236?
One more thing. The Americans in the German-speaking part of Switzerland are often referred to as "die Amis". I assure you it's a derogatory term.
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Last edited by Aleydis; 01.04.2022 at 18:21.
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01.04.2022, 18:11
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Asking for a favor, from an NYT subscriber, if possible, could you copy-paste this?
I believe it is an excellent piece about how the decisions are not / made at the top. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/30/w...ace-talks.html
I had access to this article on my phone and I don't anymore, and I cannot access it on the laptop
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01.04.2022, 18:15
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | |
WTF, what are these Western ideals anyway?
| | | | | Simply - there are many people in the west who think every country should be modelled and ruled in the same way as most western countries are.
Doe to differences in cultures, this is probably a pretty naive way of thinking.
Fascism is one step beyond extreme right-wing politics.
Once you get to that extreme right, the only way you are going to get the sort of laws that go alone with that way of thinking is to force them on the people as a democratic process will always prevent it.
Far-right parties are gaining ground in Europe. | Quote: | |  | | |
Could you answer my question marked as item 3 in post 5236?
| | | | | No idea - you quoted NotALLThere's post and he used the term "we" in that-. You should ask him.
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01.04.2022, 18:18
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Asking for a favor, from an NYT subscriber, if possible, could you copy-paste this?
I believe it is an excellent piece about how the decisions are not / made at the top. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/30/w...ace-talks.html
I had access to this article on my phone and I don't anymore, and I cannot access it on the laptop | | | | | Posted as requested. | Quote: |  | | | ISTANBUL — Russia’s lead negotiator said on Wednesday that peace talks with Ukraine appeared to be on the verge of a breakthrough, even as other officials voiced skepticism and pro-Kremlin commentators heaped scorn on the talks — mixed messages that underscored the lack of clarity over President Vladimir V. Putin’s goals in the invasion and the uncertainty over whether progress in the talks was real.
The Kremlin’s chief negotiator, Vladimir Medinsky, read a statement broadcast on state television that described Ukraine’s proposal on Tuesday to declare neutrality as a core concession to Russia, just hours after the Kremlin’s spokesman, Dmitri S. Peskov, said that the talks in Istanbul had produced nothing “very promising.”
In the broadcast, Mr. Medinsky said, “Yesterday, the Ukrainian side for the first time outlined its readiness, in writing, to fulfill a number of important conditions for building normal and, I hope, good neighborly relations with Russia.”
He listed a series of concessions, like refusing to host foreign troops, that he said Ukraine was prepared to make. “If these conditions are fulfilled, then the threat of a NATO bridgehead being created on Ukrainian territory will be liquidated,” Mr. Medinsky said.
He said Russia was determined to keep negotiating, and Mykhailo Podolyak, a member of Ukraine’s delegation in Istanbul, said the talks had yielded “proof of the viability of Ukrainian statehood.”
“The revision of global security principles & the role of institutions begins,” Mr. Podolyak said on Twitter.
The positive language from the negotiators clashed markedly with hard-line rhetoric coming out of Moscow, where supporters of the war decried Mr. Medinsky’s diplomacy as bordering on traitorous.
“Any talks with Nazis before your boot is on their throat are perceived as weakness,” Vladimir Solovyov, a popular state television host, said on his YouTube show, reprising the Kremlin’s false characterization of the Ukrainian government as “Nazis.” “You cannot meet with them or talk to them.”
And Mr. Peskov, the Kremlin’s spokesman, was far more cautious than Mr. Medinsky in his comments earlier Wednesday. He said that Ukraine’s willingness to put some proposals in writing was a “positive factor,” but that there was little progress to report otherwise.
Russia-Ukraine War: Key Developments
The state of peace talks. Pessimism about Russia’s willingness to tame its attacks in Ukraine is growing amid mixed signals from Kremlin officials on peace talks and reports of new strikes near Kyiv and Chernihiv, where Russia had vowed to sharply reduce combat operations.
A humanitarian corridor. A humanitarian corridor to allow people to leave the besieged city of Mariupol, and let aid inside, appeared to be close to being implemented. The International Red Cross said the corridor could begin on April 1.
Rising energy prices. OPEC and its allies, including Russia, decided to stick with its plan of modest monthly increases in oil input. In response to rising oil prices, President Biden announced he would release up to 180 million barrels of oil from emergency reserves over the next six months.
Putin’s advisers. U.S. intelligence suggested that President Vladimir V. Putin had been misinformed by his advisers about the Russian military’s struggles in Ukraine. The Kremlin later dismissed the assessment as a “complete misunderstanding” of the situation in Moscow.
Some Russian analysts and Western officials see the diplomacy as little more than a way to buy time while Russian troops regroup. Russia’s promise to wind down military operations around Kyiv, which the Russian Defense Ministry cast as a good-faith gesture of de-escalation, in reality appeared to be a way to explain away a battlefield defeat.
Russia forces around Kyiv were “regrouping,” the Defense Ministry said on Wednesday, although that assertion could not be independently confirmed. The aim of gathering forces near Kyiv was all along not to take the city, but to tie up and weaken Ukrainian troops in the area, the ministry claimed in a statement.
“All these goals were achieved,” the ministry said, adding it would now focus on “the final stage of the operation to liberate” the Donbas area of eastern Ukraine.
Mr. Putin himself has not commented on what the Kremlin calls a “special military operation” in Ukraine since March 18. Tatiana Stanovaya, founder of the France-based political analysis firm R. Politik, noted that much of what Ukraine proposed on Tuesday would be a nonstarter for Mr. Putin, such as the idea that there would be a 15-year negotiating process about the status of Crimea — something that Mr. Putin, who annexed the Ukrainian peninsula in 2014, says is nonnegotiable.
She described the negotiations as, most likely, a feint rather than a signal that Russia was ready to wind down the war. But she noted that — as was the case in the run-up to the invasion — senior Russian officials were unlikely to know what Mr. Putin was really planning, leading to this week’s mixed messages.
“The problem with the Russian regime is that, once again, no one understands what Putin wants,” Ms. Stanovaya said. “As a result, we get this informational chaos.” | | | | | | This user would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post: | | 
01.04.2022, 18:27
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | |
No idea - you quoted NotALLThere's post and he used the term "we" in that-. You should ask him.
| | | | | Thank you and sorry. Got confused, point taken | 
01.04.2022, 18:48
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
As to the Medinsky interview mentioned in the NYT article, which Tom1234 kindly posted - I was watching that live.
Medinsky mentioned reducing military activity in the direction of Kyiv and Chernihiv. Another thing he mentioned explicitly is that the agreement(s) reached need to be initialed ("парафировать договор"), in other words, signed off on, in Moscow. He was not authorized to make commitments on the RUS government behalf. I have no idea what this means, I can just suspect that there is some chaos at the top. Will follow up, the trouble is that there is a lot of inconsistency not just between the coverage of Russian vs. "Western" media, but also within Russian media, whatever is left of it.
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01.04.2022, 18:54
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | As to the Medinsky interview mentioned in the NYT article, which Tom1234 kindly posted - I was watching that live.
Medinsky mentioned reducing military activity in the direction of Kyiv and Chernihiv. Another thing he mentioned explicitly is that the agreement(s) reached need to be initialed ("парафировать договор"), in other words, signed off on, in Moscow. He was not authorized to make commitments on the RUS government behalf. I have no idea what this means, I can just suspect that there is some chaos at the top. Will follow up, the trouble is that there is a lot of inconsistency not just between the coverage of Russian vs. "Western" media, but also within Russian media, whatever is left of it. | | | | | I firmly believe these so called negotiations are in totally bad faith on the part of the Russians, and I recall some "Kremlinologists" saying early on that he is not considered a powerful guy = has no real mandate to negotiate.
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01.04.2022, 18:59
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I firmly believe these so called negotiations are in totally bad faith on the part of the Russians, and I recall some "Kremlinologists" saying early on that he is not considered a powerful guy = has no real mandate to negotiate. | | | | | a peace deal never happens on the first or second attempt. there will be several of these meetings while the war goes on until each side edges to what they want.
I am sure there will be a more lasting ceasefire in the next three months -happy to take bets on this with any EF punters by pm.
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01.04.2022, 19:05
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | a peace deal never happens on the first or second attempt. there will be several of these meetings while the war goes on until each side edges to what they want.
I am sure there will be a more lasting ceasefire in the next three months -happy to take bets on this with any EF punters by pm. | | | | | Let me think about it. Nice new pic, by the way. Looks healtier than the sunbathing.
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01.04.2022, 19:49
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | i think he already provided a loophole. in other news, draft of 135k into russian military is authorized. | | | | | Does he intend to send recruits to the frontline? That's crazy!
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01.04.2022, 19:53
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Turns out Hunter Biden and George Soros are the beneficiary investors behind the US bioweapons in Ukraine. https://twitter.com/RussiaUN/status/...2fPl8LWfg&s=19
Thank you, Russia, for being the advocate of truth and trust.
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01.04.2022, 20:26
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Does he intend to send recruits to the frontline? That's crazy! | | | | | probably bring troops from elsewhere and send the recuits to backfill.
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01.04.2022, 21:12
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Tom, I had a problem with this statement as it contains a line, which I would not myself cross.
"I think there are cultural traits that mean a country will find it difficult to form a government that may align with one's own western ideals.
The people of some countries would appear to trend towards a more fascist type of rule"
WTF, what are these Western ideals anyway?
I do not bother to report the usual blather by the, so to say usual suspects, vladest among them, but yours was of belief AND substance.
Could you answer my question marked as item 3 in post 5236?
One more thing. The Americans in the German-speaking part of Switzerland are often referred to as "die Amis". I assure you it's a derogatory term. | | | | |
I will try to answer your question about "WTF Western ideals" and believe it is simple:
a) freedom in your life to speak about and choose from everything that is not harming other human being
+
b) being not extremely robbed by your government (corruption is everywhere, but it's about the scale), so you can live honest(no cheating, no working an angle) and decent life
Is there any sane person who would not want that?
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01.04.2022, 21:15
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | This story about acute radiation sickness is total bullshit.
Western Europe is still losing it when someone just mentions Chernobyl or anything that smells of nuclear danger. I guess that is the socialization of the 80s, Pershing II, Chernobyl and requesting the US to commit to a "no first strike" doctrine. | | | | | I remember, my daughter was two, we would not let her play outside after the fallout charts were printed in the papers. I remember the poison Mushrooms, radioactive vegetables out of the garden, the dandelion stalks two inches thick, two headed calfs, mutated pigs and poultry, seen some with my own eyes in the village, the rest in on and in the news, the fused willow stalks.
Due to my work at the time I had access to a geiger counter from the Maximilian university in Munich, some days that thing went wild, other days not a snap crackle or pop.
Able Archer was only a few years back, and I´m not sure that it really was "just" a wargame.
Regan had called Russia an evil empire...
It was a scary time indeed and people these days seem to forget that or simply don´t know about it.
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01.04.2022, 21:33
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Able Archer was only a few years back, and I´m not sure that it really was "just" a wargame.
Regan had called Russia an evil empire...
It was a scary time indeed and people these days seem to forget that or simply don´t know about it. | | | | | Had Able Archer been more than a war game, you would have noticed ...
What do I know? I was a young kid in the 80ies. But I do feel we are in new (old) times where the use of nukes is possible again, and their conscious use might even be more likely now than it was in the 80ies. There will be very hard choices to be made.
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01.04.2022, 21:43
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Had Able Archer been more than a war game, you would have noticed ...
What do I know? I was a young kid in the 80ies. But I do feel we are in new (old) times where the use of nukes is possible again, and their conscious use might even be more likely now than it was in the 80ies. There will be very hard choices to be made. | | | | | Even if it was just a wargame, Russian paranoia was so close to sending us over the brink. It would have been a tit for tat exchange at the hight of the cold war. Do the math.
Perhaps the doomsday scenario won´t happen, but a limited conflict is thinkable indeed.
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01.04.2022, 21:53
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Perhaps the doomsday scenario won´t happen, but a limited conflict is thinkable indeed. | | | | | Yes. As limited as a "small" nuclear exchange can be. If the Russians drop a nuke in Ukraine, what does the West do? Get involved with Russia conventionally - big risk of this getting real bad. Look away because we don't want to risk nuclear war - Russia does it again, next time to Poland. But then we react, right?
Maybe the best case scenario here is that Putin dies in the next few years. I know, what then? But I'd take that gamble any moment.
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01.04.2022, 22:20
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Had Able Archer been more than a war game, you would have noticed ...
What do I know? I was a young kid in the 80ies. But I do feel we are in new (old) times where the use of nukes is possible again, and their conscious use might even be more likely now than it was in the 80ies. There will be very hard choices to be made. | | | | | Chemical and biological weapons ( Novichok ) have already been used in Salisbury albeit by the GRU to take out a double agent but used indiscriminately, so even the innocents run the risk of being exposed to it.
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01.04.2022, 22:40
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Yes. As limited as a "small" nuclear exchange can be. If the Russians drop a nuke in Ukraine, what does the West do? Get involved with Russia conventionally - big risk of this getting real bad. Look away because we don't want to risk nuclear war - Russia does it again, next time to Poland. But then we react, right?
Maybe the best case scenario here is that Putin dies in the next few years. I know, what then? But I'd take that gamble any moment. | | | | | We know that, they know that. The big question is, would the west look at their collective fingernails if Putin were to nuke Ukraine, would we stand by while Ukraine is laminated?
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