World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? - Page 271

Linnéa UZH · #**5401** 04.04.2022, 18:58

And let's not forget about the relentless war that Saudi Arabia backed by the United States, United Kingdom and France has been waging in Yemen.

The conflict in Yemen has produced the largest humanitarian crisis in the world, far worse than what is happening to the people of Ukraine!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29319423

https://theintercept.com/2022/03/16/...-saudi-arabia/

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	200,000 dead Iraqi civilians is a good place to start. Nevertheless, the scenes from Bucha are utterly vile.

vushka · #**5402** 04.04.2022, 21:19

	Quote:	komsomolez
	Civilians tied up and shot in the head infront of their homes. The SS would be proud. Russian barbarianism.

its like when the germans used to throw babies on their bayonets!

keyboardandmouse · #**5403** 04.04.2022, 21:23

	Quote:	Linnéa UZH
	And let's not forget about the relentless war that Saudi Arabia backed by the United States, United Kingdom and France has been waging in Yemen. The conflict in Yemen has produced the largest humanitarian crisis in the world, far worse than what is happening to the people of Ukraine! https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29319423 https://theintercept.com/2022/03/16/...-saudi-arabia/

And we must also include the wars in Africa which make some of the Ukraine situation look decidedly tame https://www.historyguy.com/wars_of_africa_current.html

komsomolez · #**5404** 04.04.2022, 21:30

What's it with the relativism here?

greenmount · #**5405** 04.04.2022, 21:31

	Quote:	Linnéa UZH
	And let's not forget about the relentless war that Saudi Arabia backed by the United States, United Kingdom and France has been waging in Yemen. The conflict in Yemen has produced the largest humanitarian crisis in the world, far worse than what is happening to the people of Ukraine! https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29319423 https://theintercept.com/2022/03/16/...-saudi-arabia/

Yeah, let's mix up different conflicts so this one won't look so terrific.

	Quote:	komsomolez
	What's it with the relativism here?

It is a trolling technique, used especially since the beginning of this war in Ukraine. And some people/bots only pop up for that.

keyboardandmouse · #**5406** 04.04.2022, 21:37

	Quote:	komsomolez
	What's it with the relativism here?

Irritation from me. I just didn’t like the usual ‘us and uk’ needless addition people tack onto any war they choose.

slammer · #**5407** 04.04.2022, 21:38

	Quote:	vushka
	its like when the germans used to throw babies on their bayonets!

Do you have proof of that?

greenmount · #**5408** 04.04.2022, 21:38

	Quote:	marton
	Sadly we have lulled ourselves into believing we are living in more civilised times, such a horrible rude awakening now. According to Ukraine Ministry of Defence (UMOD) web site today the Russians are now into mobilization of reserves in: Krasnodar Territory, Perm Region, Republic of Dagestan, Ingushetia, Kalmykia. UMOD write that participants in war with Ukraine are being told they can improve their financial position due to so-called "trophies", that is, robbery and looting.

Aw. Yes, but all the illusions are gone now. Russian political elites didn't change. Russian expansionism policies didn't change. Enough said. I'm pessimistic.

komsomolez · #**5409** 04.04.2022, 21:50

There is reporting about a disturbing "opinion piece" on RIA Novosti - see unverified translation and link to the original in the link below. RIA Novosti is a state-owned "news agency".

https://medium.com/@kravchenko_mm/wh...st-a3e92e3cb64

The article suggests genocide, basically.

greenmount · #**5410** 04.04.2022, 21:56

	Quote:	komsomolez
	There is reporting about a disturbing "opinion piece" on RIA Novosti - see unverified translation and link to the original in the link below. RIA Novosti is a state-owned "news agency". https://medium.com/@kravchenko_mm/wh...st-a3e92e3cb64 The article suggests genocide, basically.

Thanks for posting this, you were quicker than me. I heard it today and was shocked. Kremlin showed their true colours...not that they cared to hide anyway.

	Quote:
	Apparently, the name “Ukraine” cannot be kept as a title of any fully denazified state entity on the territory liberated from the Nazi regime. The people’s republics, newly created on the territories free from Nazism, must and will develop on the basis of practices of economic self-government and social security, restoration and modernization of systems of essential services for the population.

	Quote:
	Their political direction cannot be neutral in practice: the redemption of their guilt before Russia for treating it like an enemy can be manifested only by relying on Russia in the processes of restoration, revival, and development. No “Marshall Plans” can be allowed to happen on these territories. No “neutrality” in the ideological and practical sense that is compatible with denazification can be possible. Individuals and organizations who are to become tools of denazification in the new denazified republics cannot but rely on the direct organizational and force support from Russia.

	Quote:
	Denazification will inevitably include de-ukrainization — the rejection of the large-scale artificial inflation of the ethnic component in the self-identification of the population of the historical Malorossiya and Novorossiya territories, which was started by the Soviet authorities.

etc.etc.etc.

Kremlin is a madhouse.

NotAllThere · #**5411** 04.04.2022, 21:57

	Quote:	Linnéa UZH
	...stuff...

so what caused you to pop your head up after over two years?

komsomolez · #**5412** 04.04.2022, 22:01

	Quote:	greenmount
	Thanks for posting this, you were quicker than me. I heard it today and was shocked. Kremlin showed their true colours...not that they cared to hide anyway.

The text is absolutely insane, somewhere between Nazi Germany and 1994 Rwanda.

TinyK · #**5413** 05.04.2022, 00:13

	Quote:	komsomolez
	What's it with the relativism here?

It distracts attention from what's happening in Ukraine right now. In the next few days the situation in Borodyanka will be revealed. Some say that it is even worse than Bucha.

greenmount · #**5414** 05.04.2022, 07:44

	Quote:	TinyK
	It distracts attention from what's happening in Ukraine right now. In the next few days the situation in Borodyanka will be revealed. Some say that it is even worse than Bucha.

That Linnea and others can make make an argument, while Putin is mass murdering people, that the real discussion is how the US, UK and France, maybe even the Vatican, meddle in other countries politics.
But why stop here? Why not go further afield and argue how white people have meddled and f***ed up the world? Does that go too far? I mean, if Putin's murdering causes you to want to expose elephants in the room, why stop at that....

MajorGrubert · #**5415** 05.04.2022, 09:17

	Quote:	greenmount
	That Linnea and others can make make an argument, while Putin is mass murdering people, that the real discussion is how the US, UK and France, maybe even the Vatican, meddle in other countries politics. But why stop here? Why not go further afield and argue how white people have meddled and f***ed up the world? Does that go too far? I mean, if Putin's murdering causes you to want to expose elephants in the room, why stop at that....

When someone is trying to obfuscate and distract, you shouldn't broaden the discussion. That's playing their game.

We saw that ad nauseam during the coronavirus crisis.

MidfieldGeneral · #**5416** 05.04.2022, 10:37

	Quote:	komsomolez
	What's it with the relativism here?

‘Whataboutism’ / "relativism" is often just that - a feeble excuse for inexcusable behaviour.

But the charge of ‘whataboutism’ is also quite often an excuse, trotted out to shut down legitimate debate on the many double standards of Western foreign policy like Yemen or Iraq.

greenmount · #**5417** 05.04.2022, 10:49

	Quote:	MidfieldGeneral
	‘Whataboutism’ / "relativism" is often just that - a feeble excuse for inexcusable behaviour. But the charge of ‘whataboutism’ is also quite often an excuse, trotted out to shut down legitimate debate on the many double standards of Western foreign policy like Yemen or Iraq.

Many of the Western past "sins" have nothing to do with the current war of conquering and down the road "de-ukrainization" of Ukraine, so no, it's not an excuse to shut down anything.

NotAllThere · #**5418** 05.04.2022, 11:01

	Quote:	MidfieldGeneral
	‘Whataboutism’ / "relativism" is often just that - a feeble excuse for inexcusable behaviour. But the charge of ‘whataboutism’ is also quite often an excuse, trotted out to shut down legitimate debate on the many double standards of Western foreign policy like Yemen or Iraq.

This is true. What matters it the motive of the writer. Are they trying to deflect from Russian atrocities, or do they really care about the Yemenese (in this case)? If they cared about the Yemenese, they'd already have been going on about in this forum, and they haven't.

Ergo: deflection.

Axa · #**5419** 05.04.2022, 11:37

	Quote:	Linnéa UZH
	And let's not forget about the relentless war that Saudi Arabia backed by the United States, United Kingdom and France has been waging in Yemen. The conflict in Yemen has produced the largest humanitarian crisis in the world, far worse than what is happening to the people of Ukraine! https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29319423 https://theintercept.com/2022/03/16/...-saudi-arabia/

Well, let's play the whataboutism game

The Russians proudly support Saudi Arabia too. Directly from the Russian News Agency:

	Quote:
	MOSCOW, December 16 (2021). /TASS/. Russia welcomes Saudi Arabia’s initiatives on settling conflicts in the Middle East and North Africa and backs Riyadh’s leading role in resolving problems in the Persian Gulf region, Chairman of the State Duma Committee on International Affairs Leonid Slutsky told TASS on Thursday. "In the context of Russia’s Concept of Collective Security in the Persian Gulf, we closely watched a tour of Gulf Arab states by Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman intended to prepare a summit of the Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf (CCASG, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, UAE) that was held in Riyadh. We support the leading role of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in resolving the region’s problems, including in the sphere of security. We welcome Riyadh’s initiatives on settling conflicts in the Middle East and North Africa, including Yemen, Iraq, Libya, Syria, and the Palestinian-Israeli issue," the senior Russian lawmaker pointed out.

https://tass.com/politics/1376663

Also from the Russian News Agency, Russia and SA agree on weapon sales last year. I remember this name, Sergei Shoigu from some recent news....where? /s

	Quote:
	Russia intends for development of military-technical cooperation with Saudi Arabia. Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu thanked the Saudi official for visiting the Army 2021 international military forum KUBINKA /Moscow Region/, August 23. /TASS/. Russian Defense Ministry intends for an intensive development of the military-technical cooperation with Saudi Arabia, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Monday. "We aim for a progressive development of cooperation in military and military-technical fields on the entire spectrum of issues that pose mutual interest," Shoigu said during his meeting with Saudi Deputy Defense Minister Prince Khalid bin Salman Al Saud.

https://tass.com/defense/1329305

slammer · #**5420** 05.04.2022, 11:55

In a surprising and somewhat disturbing event, Germany’s Bundespräsident Steinmeyer has announced that mistakes have been made and the government should have listened to other countries that warned Germany about dealing with Russia. He also admitted to making personal mistakes in dealing with Putin.
This is a first in German politics on one hand, on the other it means Russian gas will stop and Putin loses a major channel to “the west”