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06.04.2022, 09:50
| Member | | Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Zurich Witikon
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Why don't you share this independent evidence with us? | | | | | The incident in Bucha was announced exactly at the moment when Zelensky verbally refused the offers made in writing in Istanbul.
There is no single statement on the date of satellite imagery. They are not available on the source site
In the detailed report of Buchi Mayor on the departure of Russian troops, nothing was said about the corpses lying on the roads. Corpses are also not visible on the filming of Ukrainian troops entering Bucha.
Satellite images and video footage from a car of only one street have been published. An extremely unlikely coincidence.
On the corpses are white bandages, the meaning of which is "I am on your side" for the Russian army
Both old and new history confirms that the killing of civilians is much more characteristic of irregular troops than of the regular army. In Bucha there were no Russian irregular troops.
Russian humanitarian packages are seen next to some corpses. It is unlikely that people were shot by those who issued these packages
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06.04.2022, 10:06
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | The incident in Bucha was announced exactly at the moment when Zelensky verbally refused the offers made in writing in Istanbul.
There is no single statement on the date of satellite imagery. They are not available on the source site
In the detailed report of Buchi Mayor on the departure of Russian troops, nothing was said about the corpses lying on the roads. Corpses are also not visible on the filming of Ukrainian troops entering Bucha.
Satellite images and video footage from a car of only one street have been published. An extremely unlikely coincidence.
On the corpses are white bandages, the meaning of which is "I am on your side" for the Russian army
Both old and new history confirms that the killing of civilians is much more characteristic of irregular troops than of the regular army. In Bucha there were no Russian irregular troops.
Russian humanitarian packages are seen next to some corpses. It is unlikely that people were shot by those who issued these packages | | | | | Here you have it, cyclist killed in Bucha: https://youtu.be/jkwqiNeNMfE https://twitter.com/Koshman/status/1...GZcAenMfjefA0g | 
06.04.2022, 10:14
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lummerland
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | The incident in Bucha was announced exactly at the moment when Zelensky verbally refused the offers made in writing in Istanbul.
There is no single statement on the date of satellite imagery. They are not available on the source site
In the detailed report of Buchi Mayor on the departure of Russian troops, nothing was said about the corpses lying on the roads. Corpses are also not visible on the filming of Ukrainian troops entering Bucha.
Satellite images and video footage from a car of only one street have been published. An extremely unlikely coincidence.
On the corpses are white bandages, the meaning of which is "I am on your side" for the Russian army
Both old and new history confirms that the killing of civilians is much more characteristic of irregular troops than of the regular army. In Bucha there were no Russian irregular troops.
Russian humanitarian packages are seen next to some corpses. It is unlikely that people were shot by those who issued these packages | | | | | Truth, along with the plan is the first casualty of war. I canīt imagine the Ukraines killing their own people, I can imagine them using already dead bodies to confuse and cloud opinions. I canīt imagine a regular Russian army intentionally killing civilians, this isnīt the Red Army and this isnīt Prussia. I can however imagine a disorganized army under retreat being unable to difference between partisans and civilians and killing whoever they see as a threat.
We have long passed the point where "good" and "bad" run on two clear opposite lines, this isnīt a Hollywood war.
__________________
Back in Bavaria, godīs own belly button.
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06.04.2022, 10:23
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | On the corpses are white bandages, the meaning of which is "I am on your side" for the Russian army
Both old and new history confirms that the killing of civilians is much more characteristic of irregular troops than of the regular army. In Bucha there were no Russian irregular troops.
Russian humanitarian packages are seen next to some corpses. It is unlikely that people were shot by those who issued these packages | | | | | Well, you suggested to wait for the results of the independent investigation. So, why mention white bandages, history and humanitarian packages in order to tell "Russian soldiers did not do it"?
Why jump to the conclusions when you're telling others to avoid doing this?
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06.04.2022, 10:26
| Member | | Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Zurich Witikon
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| | | Quote: |  | | | I canīt imagine the Ukraines killing their own people | | | | | Why not? They've been doing it regularly and systematically in the past 8 years | Quote: |  | | | We have long passed the point where "good" and "bad" run on two clear opposite lines, this isnīt a Hollywood war. | | | | | That's why there are still people suggesting to investigate first and then blame. But for some reason the ones who prefer to blame first, make much more noise | Quote: | |  | | | Why jump to the conclusions when you're telling others to avoid doing this? | | | | | I was asked to list indirect indications why the information about Bucha may be fake. No conclusions, only doubts.
Last edited by NotAllThere; 06.04.2022 at 11:21.
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06.04.2022, 10:31
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | ....I canīt imagine a regular Russian army intentionally killing civilians, this isnīt the Red Army and this isnīt Prussia..... | | | | | Just look at almost any war ever. Happens pretty well every time from all sides.
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06.04.2022, 10:44
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Truth, along with the plan is the first casualty of war. I canīt imagine the Ukraines killing their own people, I can imagine them using already dead bodies to confuse and cloud opinions. I canīt imagine a regular Russian army intentionally killing civilians, this isnīt the Red Army and this isnīt Prussia. I can however imagine a disorganized army under retreat being unable to difference between partisans and civilians and killing whoever they see as a threat.
We have long passed the point where "good" and "bad" run on two clear opposite lines, this isnīt a Hollywood war. | | | | | As I wrote before. According to the civilians Russian army was searching through private buildings for alcohol.
If you combine extreme stress, extremely low morale, owning weapons, all that, with alcohol, it's already giving good explanation why it happened.
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06.04.2022, 10:49
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | As I wrote before. According to the civilians Russian army was searching through private buildings for alcohol.
If you combine extreme stress, extremely low morale, owning weapons, all that, with alcohol, it's already giving good explanation why it happened. | | | | | well. it's not yet clear whether the acts were committed by order from the top or whether they were just local actions. it wouldn't surprise me if they were ordered as part of a scorched earth strategy.
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06.04.2022, 10:50
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | The incident in Bucha was announced exactly at the moment when Zelensky verbally refused the offers made in writing in Istanbul. | | | | | Offers made   | 
06.04.2022, 11:10
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I canīt imagine a regular Russian army intentionally killing civilians, this isnīt the Red Army and this isnīt Prussia. | | | | | It's exactly the same Red Army, they were told they're fighting nazis. 
Call it (and imagine, good word btw) whatever you like, the patterns still stand.
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06.04.2022, 11:20
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I was asked to list indirect indications why the information about Bucha may be fake. No conclusions, only doubts. | | | | | There's no doubt about which army invaded other country and created millions of refugees. The attention grabbing photos are just another display of violence.
Anyway, Russia secured a bad reputation for years to come. Putin political career is over. Of course, the guy can stay in power as any other dictator supported by the military.
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06.04.2022, 11:27
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
I guess the two terrifying weeks my guests stayed in a Kyiv shelter hearing bombs and missiles fall was also a staged fiction. | This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post: | | 
06.04.2022, 11:29
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | It's exactly the same Red Army, they were told they're fighting nazis. 
Call it (and imagine, good word btw) whatever you like, the patterns still stand. | | | | | Well its not the Red red army anymore, ist the shadow of the Red Army, but Yes, thank you. The patterns are the same for any army in any century. What I have been trying to say for ages.
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06.04.2022, 11:32
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I guess the two terrifying weeks my guests stayed in a Kyiv shelter hearing bombs and missiles fall was also a staged fiction.  | | | | | i think we got it already. you're hosting ukrainian refugees and you're a great person.
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06.04.2022, 11:36
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I guess the two terrifying weeks my guests stayed in a Kyiv shelter hearing bombs and missiles fall was also a staged fiction.  | | | | | Who said this? What is the purpose of such generalizations?
No one here objects that civilians in Ukraine are suffering now.
Not so many remember that they've been suffering before too.
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06.04.2022, 11:46
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Who said this? What is the purpose of such generalizations?
No one here objects that civilians in Ukraine are suffering now.
Not so many remember that they've been suffering before too. | | | | | Just taking your lies, propaganda, misinformation and disinformation to the logical conclusion. Sorry if it upsets you.
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06.04.2022, 11:55
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | The incident in Bucha was announced exactly at the moment when Zelensky verbally refused the offers made in writing in Istanbul.
There is no single statement on the date of satellite imagery. They are not available on the source site
In the detailed report of Buchi Mayor on the departure of Russian troops, nothing was said about the corpses lying on the roads. Corpses are also not visible on the filming of Ukrainian troops entering Bucha.
Satellite images and video footage from a car of only one street have been published. An extremely unlikely coincidence.
On the corpses are white bandages, the meaning of which is "I am on your side" for the Russian army
Both old and new history confirms that the killing of civilians is much more characteristic of irregular troops than of the regular army. In Bucha there were no Russian irregular troops.
Russian humanitarian packages are seen next to some corpses. It is unlikely that people were shot by those who issued these packages | | | | | Evidence is factual information, not a lot of guesswork.
I will give you an example "In Bucha there were no Russian irregular troops", where is the list of which Russian troops were in Bucha?
The Chechen in Bucha were from the Special Rapid Response Force (SOBR) Terek and another paramilitary riot-control force known as OMON which are not under the direct control of the regular army .
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06.04.2022, 11:58
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I prefer not to guess, but to wait for the results of an independent investigation. If such an investigation is not carried out, the refusal to conduct it will unequivocally indicate that this is a fake (since there is already a lot of indirect evidence), and who killed the non-combatants. | | | | | | Quote: | |  | | | A masterful response. The only thing you could have added is something like "We should also ask ourselves who benefits from claiming that Russian personnel are the perpetrators of this heinous crime". | | | | | | Quote: | |  | | | Thank you. I thought it's obvious. | | | | | Sorry, I forgot that you "anti-fascists" have no sense for sarcasm.
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06.04.2022, 12:17
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | The incident in Bucha was announced exactly at the moment when Zelensky verbally refused the offers made in writing in Istanbul.
There is no single statement on the date of satellite imagery. They are not available on the source site
In the detailed report of Buchi Mayor on the departure of Russian troops, nothing was said about the corpses lying on the roads. Corpses are also not visible on the filming of Ukrainian troops entering Bucha.
Satellite images and video footage from a car of only one street have been published. An extremely unlikely coincidence.
On the corpses are white bandages, the meaning of which is "I am on your side" for the Russian army
Both old and new history confirms that the killing of civilians is much more characteristic of irregular troops than of the regular army. In Bucha there were no Russian irregular troops.
Russian humanitarian packages are seen next to some corpses. It is unlikely that people were shot by those who issued these packages | | | | | About "On the corpses are white bandages, the meaning of which is "I am on your side" for the Russian army"; what is your source for this claim? Do you believe wounded people who are not on the side of the Russian Army get different colour bandages?
Which colours are available and what are their meanings?
Such nonsense | The following 3 users would like to thank marton for this useful post: | | 
06.04.2022, 12:31
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Do you believe wounded people who are not on the side of the Russian Army get different colour bandages?
Which colours are available and what are their meanings?
Such nonsense  | | | | |
Whether noncence or not, pro-Ukrainian forces wear blue bandages
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