Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #5561  
Old 07.04.2022, 18:48
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Zurich
Posts: 117
Groaned at 16 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 214 Times in 116 Posts
Excad has earned the respect of manyExcad has earned the respect of manyExcad has earned the respect of many
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
I would give it a 7 out of 10 for the west since the 19th century, a 4 out of 10 if you add the pervious centuries into the mix.

If currently it's 7, then what is the top of your scale referring to? Because surely that 10-rate country doesn't exist on Earth.

Quote:
View Post
Russia however seems to never have had a concept of human rights, even now. Is this why we perceive Russia as the bad guys?
Don't know how you define "bad guys", but if a country is stubbornly treating it's citizens merely as a resource (like gas and oil), then it's surely not a good or sustainable place to live in.
Reply With Quote
  #5562  
Old 07.04.2022, 18:49
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 4,089
Groaned at 399 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 8,790 Times in 3,758 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

UN Gen Assembly votes to expel RU from Human Rights Council. Purely symbolic, of course. China on Russia's side, of course.

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #5563  
Old 07.04.2022, 19:19
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,661
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,535 Times in 4,123 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
If currently it's 7, then what is the top of your scale referring to? Because surely that 10-rate country doesn't exist on Earth.



Don't know how you define "bad guys", but if a country is stubbornly treating it's citizens merely as a resource (like gas and oil), then it's surely not a good or sustainable place to live in.
I´d give Norway an eight, so there is room at the top.
Reply With Quote
  #5564  
Old 07.04.2022, 19:35
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,199
Groaned at 348 Times in 301 Posts
Thanked 25,607 Times in 10,426 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
I´d give Norway an eight, so there is room at the top.
What are you some kind of stooge? Norway, null points.
Reply With Quote
  #5565  
Old 07.04.2022, 20:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 10,633
Groaned at 657 Times in 477 Posts
Thanked 14,440 Times in 7,550 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Just to be clear, which of these Putin's is on your bedroom wall? The gay icon?
Interesting, all of a sudden homophobic slurs are a-Ok. Same with the repeated personal attacks.

You're a disgrace, you should step down as a mod. Or be removed.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #5566  
Old 07.04.2022, 20:41
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kt.Zh
Posts: 12,166
Groaned at 487 Times in 402 Posts
Thanked 19,073 Times in 9,648 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Interesting, all of a sudden homophobic slurs are a-Ok. Same with the repeated personal attacks.

You're a disgrace, you should step down as a mod. Or be removed.
"Gay icon" is a homophobic slur?

"You're a disgrace" is pretty much a personal attack, so when are you gonna step out? Or be removed?

You're lucky the mods are allowing pretty much everything here. Especially disinformation and trolling.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #5567  
Old 07.04.2022, 21:16
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 11,721
Groaned at 95 Times in 90 Posts
Thanked 20,693 Times in 9,125 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

There is discussion going on behind the scenes regarding what is disinformation and trolling. There are clearly some very strong viewpoints.

It would be nice if folks could leave out all personal comments, but this is EF and I can ask until I die but it won't happen.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #5568  
Old 07.04.2022, 21:18
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 4,089
Groaned at 399 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 8,790 Times in 3,758 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
There is discussion going on behind the scenes regarding what is disinformation and trolling. There are clearly some very strong viewpoints.
Oh, I bet.
Reply With Quote
  #5569  
Old 07.04.2022, 21:42
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,381
Groaned at 721 Times in 605 Posts
Thanked 24,090 Times in 12,615 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

According to the FT, Nato has agreed to supply heavy weapons and new types of weapons to Ukraine.

Seems the claim that NATO will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian was not a joke.

Good decision to protect us in Europe but the poor Ukrainians...

The currently most well-known NATO battle tanks are the US-American M1-Abrams, the German Leopard 2, the British Challenger, the French Leclerc, heavy guns and multiple rocket launchers would be useful.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #5570  
Old 07.04.2022, 22:01
TinyK's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Left bank of Lake Zurich
Posts: 1,444
Groaned at 66 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,577 Times in 797 Posts
TinyK has a reputation beyond reputeTinyK has a reputation beyond reputeTinyK has a reputation beyond reputeTinyK has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
According to the FT, Nato has agreed to supply heavy weapons and new types of weapons to Ukraine.

Seems the claim that NATO will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian was not a joke.

Good decision to protect us in Europe but the poor Ukrainians...
So you propose not to supply the heavy weapons to Ukraine? And then what?
Reply With Quote
  #5571  
Old 07.04.2022, 22:02
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 4,089
Groaned at 399 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 8,790 Times in 3,758 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Stoltenberg said at today's presser after the NATO summit that he did not understand the division in offensive and defensive weapons as Ukraine is defending itself against an invasion. So somehow all weapons are defensive, is what I heard him say.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #5572  
Old 07.04.2022, 22:22
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: transcended.
Posts: 180
Groaned at 231 Times in 121 Posts
Thanked 857 Times in 366 Posts
vushka is considered unworthyvushka is considered unworthyvushka is considered unworthy
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
According to the FT, Nato has agreed to supply heavy weapons and new types of weapons to Ukraine.

Seems the claim that NATO will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian was not a joke.

Good decision to protect us in Europe but the poor Ukrainians...

The currently most well-known NATO battle tanks are the US-American M1-Abrams, the German Leopard 2, the British Challenger, the French Leclerc, heavy guns and multiple rocket launchers would be useful.
seems cowardly that they only offer weapons to ukraine rather than get their hands dirty themselves. i understand the implications but it still comes off as weak.
then again i guess its less about helping ukraine than it is about weakening russia so its better for them to prolong the war with someone else fighting.

Last edited by vushka; 07.04.2022 at 22:35.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank vushka for this useful post:
The following 3 users groan at vushka for this post:
  #5573  
Old 07.04.2022, 22:34
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 645
Groaned at 51 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 763 Times in 402 Posts
dandi has an excellent reputationdandi has an excellent reputationdandi has an excellent reputationdandi has an excellent reputation
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
The currently most well-known NATO battle tanks are the US-American M1-Abrams, the German Leopard 2, the British Challenger, the French Leclerc, heavy guns and multiple rocket launchers would be useful.
Highly unlikely these could be made available to Ukraine. These are machines that take years of training and substantial logistics to be used effectively. Plus, western european countries barely have enough of these modern tanks to defend themselves and none to spare. Only Americans have a real surplus of heavy modern weaponry, but they won't be shipping Abrams or F-16s to Ukraine, let's stop dreaming about that.

The eastern europeans may be able to provide some seemingly compatible tanks and IFVs that the Ukrainians can use, but sadly even those are either mostly museum pieces or very few modernized with incompatible equipment.

Sadly, for now the only weapons that NATO can really help with in the short term are ATGMs like the NLAWs or Javelins or portable manpads as Stingers or Starstreaks. Much more helpful would be drones, communications, real-time satellite intel and good old-fashioned artillery, and lots and lots of it.
Reply With Quote
  #5574  
Old 07.04.2022, 23:11
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,381
Groaned at 721 Times in 605 Posts
Thanked 24,090 Times in 12,615 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Highly unlikely these could be made available to Ukraine. These are machines that take years of training and substantial logistics to be used effectively. Plus, western european countries barely have enough of these modern tanks to defend themselves and none to spare. Only Americans have a real surplus of heavy modern weaponry, but they won't be shipping Abrams or F-16s to Ukraine, let's stop dreaming about that.

The eastern europeans may be able to provide some seemingly compatible tanks and IFVs that the Ukrainians can use, but sadly even those are either mostly museum pieces or very few modernized with incompatible equipment.

Sadly, for now the only weapons that NATO can really help with in the short term are ATGMs like the NLAWs or Javelins or portable manpads as Stingers or Starstreaks. Much more helpful would be drones, communications, real-time satellite intel and good old-fashioned artillery, and lots and lots of it.
There is a youtube video on how to drive an Abrams plus there are plenty of computer simulators around.

An experienced tank driver should be able to convert in weeks.
Reply With Quote
  #5575  
Old 08.04.2022, 07:18
Downerbuzz's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: town not big enough for the both of us
Posts: 1,183
Groaned at 60 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 1,613 Times in 663 Posts
Downerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
seems cowardly that they only offer weapons to ukraine rather than get their hands dirty themselves. i understand the implications but it still comes off as weak.
then again i guess its less about helping ukraine than it is about weakening russia so its better for them to prolong the war with someone else fighting.
I'm hoping you're just a troll. It's frightening to think people really can think this way.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Downerbuzz for this useful post:
This user groans at Downerbuzz for this post:
  #5576  
Old 08.04.2022, 07:31
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 14,194
Groaned at 1,440 Times in 953 Posts
Thanked 21,498 Times in 8,207 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
I'm hoping you're just a troll. It's frightening to think people really can think this way.
It is genuinely amazing that accounts like this are not nuked. It is literally an EF account engaging in Russian propaganda and disinformation on our forum. Incredible and I do wonder what the tolerance of Thelocal for this kind of stuff on their forum really is, if they knew it was happening under their noses.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
This user groans at Chuff for this post:
  #5577  
Old 08.04.2022, 08:24
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kt.Zh
Posts: 12,166
Groaned at 487 Times in 402 Posts
Thanked 19,073 Times in 9,648 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
It is genuinely amazing that accounts like this are not nuked. It is literally an EF account engaging in Russian propaganda and disinformation on our forum. Incredible and I do wonder what the tolerance of Thelocal for this kind of stuff on their forum really is, if they knew it was happening under their noses.
Their tolerance is very high...as usual! Wasn't vushka here who had the nerve to post how wonderful it is that we in the collective West have freedom of speech (I can add more for her: freedom of association!!) which she or he is obviously using to support a regime that cancelled any resemblance of freedom of speech and expression.
Well done.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #5578  
Old 08.04.2022, 08:29
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 2,210
Groaned at 1,037 Times in 582 Posts
Thanked 5,486 Times in 2,457 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
It is genuinely amazing that accounts like this are not nuked. It is literally an EF account engaging in Russian propaganda and disinformation on our forum. Incredible and I do wonder what the tolerance of Thelocal for this kind of stuff on their forum really is, if they knew it was happening under their noses.
You should write a post on Reddit to complain

Seriously, what vushka said is literally what President Zelensky said in his own words in an Economist interview last week. To paraphrase, he said that there is basically split in his allies: Those that want a quick resolution to this war like Germany and France, those that want Russia to be defeated/humiliated militarily like Poland and Czechia, and finally those that want a prolonged war in order to weaken Russia like US/UK.

Source

Volodymyr Zelensky in his own words

https://www.economist.com/europe/202...-his-own-words

For those who don't have a subscription you can watch the interview here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNjiRmIWtss
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #5579  
Old 08.04.2022, 08:34
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: transcended.
Posts: 180
Groaned at 231 Times in 121 Posts
Thanked 857 Times in 366 Posts
vushka is considered unworthyvushka is considered unworthyvushka is considered unworthy
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

NATO says Ukraine to decide on peace deal with Russia — within limits
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...-limits-peace/

That leads to an awkward reality: For some in NATO, it’s better for the Ukrainians to keep fighting, and dying, than to achieve a peace that comes too early or at too high a cost to Kyiv and the rest of Europe.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank vushka for this useful post:
  #5580  
Old 08.04.2022, 09:03
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 15,587
Groaned at 304 Times in 204 Posts
Thanked 19,871 Times in 8,375 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
You should write a post on Reddit to complain

Seriously, what vushka said is literally what President Zelensky said in his own words in an Economist interview last week. To paraphrase, he said that there is basically split in his allies: Those that want a quick resolution to this war like Germany and France, those that want Russia to be defeated/humiliated militarily like Poland and Czechia, and finally those that want a prolonged war in order to weaken Russia like US/UK.

Source

Volodymyr Zelensky in his own words

https://www.economist.com/europe/202...-his-own-words

For those who don't have a subscription you can watch the interview here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNjiRmIWtss
I've been surprised at how much he's been willing to criticize various countries that are vital in sustaining his war effort. You can tell in the interview that he's being somewhat diplomatic, but definitely holding back on what he wants to say and avoids naming and shaming.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
crimea, russia, ukraine




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jewish Refugees in Switzerland during World War II zanskar International affairs/politics 48 16.06.2010 15:58
Book about Switzerland in the second world war [recommendation?] telandy Other/general 14 18.06.2007 20:15


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0