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  #5861  
Old 22.04.2022, 16:36
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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True, this applies for you and me and I think that most on this forum are flexible and intelligent enough to adapt to any sudden change. But we are not the majority and I very much doubt that Hans and Lisel will be able to do the same.
Hans and Lisel will use leaves instead of 5 layers toilet papers but will be alive and won't run like hunted animals away from bombs.

Is Hans and Lisel's butt comfort more important than Ukrainian lives? I know the answer, as you seem to be an admirer of Goering but still.....

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And great that you memorize Goering quotes. In particular ones that put democracies in the same bucket as fascist dictatorships.
Yep. That's all I needed to have the full picture.
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  #5862  
Old 22.04.2022, 18:36
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Maybe tested isn't the right word, but after the 9/11 attacks in the USA, article 5 was invoked/used as an argument for NATO countries to get involved in Afghanistan. That worked out well, didn't it?

For those who like reading, I've been reading two books that are pretty interesting. Both are by Tim Marshall. One is Prisoners of Geography and the other The Power of Geography. In the sections about Russia, the author argues that it's not necessarily about one person's power. It's about the geography that limits Russia's access to the rest of the world, particularly its lacking of a warm-water port (unless you count the Black Sea). It's fascinating to look at so many world conflicts through the eyes of geography instead of politics alone.
I have read Tim Marschall‘s books and they do explain a lot about how the world works and if you take a step back you will see why a nato expansion int Ukraine left Putin with almost no other choice.
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  #5863  
Old 22.04.2022, 18:39
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I have read Tim Marschall‘s books and they do explain a lot about how the world works and if you take a step back you will see why a nato expansion int Ukraine left Putin with almost no other choice.
Almost.

And I guess Hitler also had almost no chance but going after the fertile plains of Eastern Europe.
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  #5864  
Old 22.04.2022, 18:48
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Almost.

And I guess Hitler also had almost no chance but going after the fertile plains of Eastern Europe.
If you are going to go down that road then the question arises if Hitler did a pre-emptive strike on Russia before Stalin invaded Germany. Remember Germany’s spy ring was close to Stalin and why would Germany invade Russia two years before Germany was ready to invade Russia?
Boom, your turn!


Aaaand here comes Godwin.
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  #5865  
Old 22.04.2022, 18:51
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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If you are going to go down that road then the question arises if Hitler did a pre-emptive strike on Russia before Stalin invaded Germany. Remember Germany’s spy ring was close to Stalin and why would Germany invade Russia two years before Germany was ready to invade Russia?
Boom, your turn!


Aaaand here comes Godwin.

I don't know. Perhaps you have a fitting Goering quote on that too?
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Old 22.04.2022, 19:01
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I don't know. Perhaps you have a fitting Goering quote on that too?
No, got one from Himmler though:
„The decision, therefore, lies here in the East; here must the Russian enemy, this people numbering two hundred million Russians, be destroyed on the battle field and person by person, and made to bleed to death.“
A quote that hasn’t aged much don‘t you think? America seems to like it.
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Old 22.04.2022, 19:10
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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No, got one from Himmler though:
„The decision, therefore, lies here in the East; here must the Russian enemy, this people numbering two hundred million Russians, be destroyed on the battle field and person by person, and made to bleed to death.“
A quote that hasn’t aged much don‘t you think? America seems to like it.
OK. I see you are so shit scared of the Russians that you are not only willing to throw them big parts of Eastern Europe, but you go straight to pro-actively applying their propaganda. Your grandkids will be proud of you.
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  #5868  
Old 22.04.2022, 19:12
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I have read Tim Marschall‘s books and they do explain a lot about how the world works and if you take a step back you will see why a nato expansion int Ukraine left Putin with almost no other choice.
What would happen if Putin would do nothing? How would Russia be endangered?
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  #5869  
Old 22.04.2022, 19:22
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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What would happen if Putin would do nothing? How would Russia be endangered?
Now THAT is a good question. I would think that the Americans would try to whittle Russia down to a point where the global power Russia no longer exists, just like they did post war with the British empire.
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Old 22.04.2022, 19:32
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I have read Tim Marschall‘s books and they do explain a lot about how the world works and if you take a step back you will see why a nato expansion int Ukraine left Putin with almost no other choice.
Putin had no other choice but to invade and cause misery to millions?

I'm not entirely convinced of that. Sounds like paranoid delusions.

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What would happen if Putin would do nothing? How would Russia be endangered?
None at all. To think otherwise is paranoid delusions. Regardless of the opinion of a journalist.
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  #5871  
Old 22.04.2022, 19:37
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Now THAT is a good question. I would think that the Americans would try to whittle Russia down to a point where the global power Russia no longer exists, just like they did post war with the British empire.
Really? I didn't think Ghandi and Jinnah, to name two for example, were American or were influenced by America.
Singapore?
Malaysia?

What did you have in mind?
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  #5872  
Old 22.04.2022, 19:37
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Now THAT is a good question. I would think that the Americans would try to whittle Russia down to a point where the global power Russia no longer exists, just like they did post war with the British empire.
That's the biggest and most dangerous propaganda bullsh** in the entire topic.
How would "the West" sell that "whittling down" to its citizens to avoid them being against it?

I am citizen of "the West" and I have no clue why would I want to destroy Russia economically instead grow together.

Don't you see that scaring people with "bloodthirsty" NATO by Russian government is just the pretext to remain in power and keep stealing?

Man, just take a look at numbeo.com and take a look by hard numbers which countries care about their citizens and which don't. Since you're living in Switzerland, I guess the "quality of life index" tells you something, doesn't it?

Last edited by Excad; 22.04.2022 at 20:02.
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  #5873  
Old 22.04.2022, 21:24
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Now THAT is a good question. I would think that the Americans would try to whittle Russia down to a point where the global power Russia no longer exists, just like they did post war with the British empire.
If you believe Russia is a global power then you swallowed more Russian propaganda than I had believed.

Certainly, the Soviet Union was a global power but Russia is just a shadow of that. The Soviet Union had the second highest GDP worldwide whereas Russia is eleventh, far behind another nuclear power, India, which is the fifth highest. Russia has roughly the same GDP as South Korea.
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Old 22.04.2022, 21:30
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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No, got one from Himmler though:
„The decision, therefore, lies here in the East; here must the Russian enemy, this people numbering two hundred million Russians, be destroyed on the battle field and person by person, and made to bleed to death.“
A quote that hasn’t aged much don‘t you think? America seems to like it.
Out of date, Russia has nothing like two hundred million.
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Old 22.04.2022, 21:35
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I have read Tim Marschall‘s books and they do explain a lot about how the world works and if you take a step back you will see why a nato expansion int Ukraine left Putin with almost no other choice.
Putin had no other choice but to send at least 30,000 of his own citizens to their deaths with more dying every day?
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Old 22.04.2022, 22:21
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Out of date, Russia has nothing like two hundred million.
That just shows how good the whittling down has worked
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Old 22.04.2022, 23:28
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Cheap energy? As in "cheap gas and oil"?
Climate change? As in "caused by burning gas and oil"?
I'm afraid you cannot have both
Cheap Russian gas will still be around but if the major European customers stick with their plans to reduce consumption then Russia will face a big sales and budget decline.
Due to their war in Ukraine blocking their only warm water ports in the Black Sea and most of their gas pipelines pointing to Europe it will be difficult for Russia to supply non European customers, especially in winter.
Their largest gas terminal port is the Port of St. Petersburg which like other Russian gas terminal ports freezes in winter and anyway is only useful for serving Europe.
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Old 22.04.2022, 23:41
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Cheap Russian gas will still be around but if the major European customers stick with their plans to reduce consumption then Russia will face a big sales and budget decline.
Due to their war in Ukraine blocking their only warm water ports in the Black Sea and most of their gas pipelines pointing to Europe it will be difficult for Russia to supply non European customers, especially in winter.
Their largest gas terminal port is the Port of St. Petersburg which like other Russian gas terminal ports freezes in winter and anyway is only useful for serving Europe.
Oh boy.

There is no cheap Russian gas in Europe. Most gets sold at the market price - which is a function of supply (Russia, Norway, Algeria LNG) and demand. Then, their main LNG export terminals are in Yamal (NW Siberia) and Sakhalin (Far East). Yamal has an ice challenge in winter so that they export westbound only. They have ice class tankers plus icebreakers, so not surprisingly they thought about winter. The Black Sea ports have no gas export function whatsoever.
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Old 23.04.2022, 07:50
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Out of date, Russia has nothing like two hundred million.
146 million is the 2021 figure.
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  #5880  
Old 23.04.2022, 07:54
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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OK. I see you are so shit scared of the Russians that you are not only willing to throw them big parts of Eastern Europe, but you go straight to pro-actively applying their propaganda. Your grandkids will be proud of you.
Sounds like a personal attack, meaning you have no other objections.

Comparing 2022 with 1941 was a very strange argument - Hitler invaded all of Europe before attacking Russia, obviously not in order to avoid any threat to Germany
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