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23.04.2022, 14:32
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Liar. Putin used this term. | | | | | Someone who repeats an untruth, however blatant, that they actually believe is not a liar. Deluded, credulous and/or bonkers, perhaps. But not a liar.
So let's not call each other liars. | This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post: | | 
23.04.2022, 14:53
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
arz. We already talked about this some time ago. | Quote: | |  | | | There is reporting about a disturbing "opinion piece" on RIA Novosti - see unverified translation and link to the original in the link below. RIA Novosti is a state-owned "news agency". https://medium.com/@kravchenko_mm/wh...st-a3e92e3cb64
The article suggests genocide, basically. | | | | | There are more links I thought I didn't need to read or watch again https://thehill.com/opinion/internat...und-the-alarm/
Last edited by greenmount; 23.04.2022 at 15:11.
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23.04.2022, 14:56
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Have you read the book? It´s on Amazon. | | | | | I have, but I guess two people reading the same text can come to different conclusions.
You seem to read it as 'Putin had no choice but to invade to protect his interests'. As if the West forced his hand. I don't agree.
I read it as 'Putin is using Ukraine's desire to make closer ties to Europe as an excuse to do something he's wanted to for a while'. He wants a land route to Crimea. He thought it might be worth trying for the whole country, but since that strategy didn't work he's falling back to Donbas and a land route.
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23.04.2022, 17:11
| Member | | Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Zurich Witikon
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | |
you claim that the plan for "de-ukrainization" was voiced by Putin, but refer to an article by some Sergeytsev, whose opinion is of little interest in Russia, and in the West it is only because it was possible to catch nonsense that is especially tasty for Western propagandists from a five-page semi-fiction. The fact that this clown is allowed to be published in the state owned agency does not mean at all that he voices the opinion of the leadership. There's a lot of delirium in the public media, both in Russian and Western.
I'd encourage to pay more attention to the official sources.
For instance, Peskov clearly repeated the 3 officially announced objectives. Any deviations from them are pure fantasies. https://youtu.be/L0WScHPbaPA | This user would like to thank arz for this useful post: | | 
23.04.2022, 17:22
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SZ
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | you claim that the plan for "de-ukrainization" was voiced by Putin, but refer to an article by some Sergeytsev, whose opinion is of little interest in Russia, and in the West it is only because it was possible to catch nonsense that is especially tasty for Western propagandists from a five-page semi-fiction. The fact that this clown is allowed to be published in the state owned agency does not mean at all that he voices the opinion of the leadership. There's a lot of delirium in the public media, both in Russian and Western.
I'd encourage to pay more attention to the official sources.
For instance, Peskov clearly repeated the 3 officially announced objectives. Any deviations from them are pure fantasies. https://youtu.be/L0WScHPbaPA | | | | | Ah, fantasies ... and you are proving this with the interview where Peskov looks like a total fool in denying Russia's responsibility for Bucha.
GTFO.
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23.04.2022, 17:26
| Junior Member | | Join Date: May 2021 Location: Zug
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | you claim that the plan for "de-ukrainization" was voiced by Putin, but refer to an article by some Sergeytsev, whose opinion is of little interest in Russia, and in the West it is only because it was possible to catch nonsense that is especially tasty for Western propagandists from a five-page semi-fiction. The fact that this clown is allowed to be published in the state owned agency does not mean at all that he voices the opinion of the leadership. There's a lot of delirium in the public media, both in Russian and Western.
I'd encourage to pay more attention to the official sources.
For instance, Peskov clearly repeated the 3 officially announced objectives. Any deviations from them are pure fantasies. https://youtu.be/L0WScHPbaPA | | | | | In other news..
The Kremlin has today announced that the Russian warship ‘Moscva’ is now on a special operation to de-nazify the bottom of the Black Sea.
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23.04.2022, 17:45
| Member | | Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Zurich Witikon
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Ah, fantasies ... and you are proving this with the interview where Peskov looks like a total fool in denying Russia's responsibility for Bucha.
GTFO. | | | | |
What's indicates a fool is your personal opinion.
I, personally, consider foolish to believe the massacre like in Bucha could be done by any regular army.
Irregular armed forces are much more likely candidate.
As per so-called "proofs".. There's been so many of those in the past years
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23.04.2022, 17:52
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | What's indicates a fool is your personal opinion.
I, personally, consider foolish to believe the massacre like in Bucha could be done by any regular army.
Irregular armed forces are much more likely candidate.
As per so-called "proofs".. There's been so many of those in the past years | | | | | Handy that you lot have those Wagner guys, right?
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23.04.2022, 18:17
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Handy that you lot have those Wagner guys, right? | | | | | More poor fodder for the cannons...
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23.04.2022, 18:34
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Handy that you lot have those Wagner guys, right? | | | | | Remind me, what's the politics of the guy in charge of that group? (I don't mean Putin!)
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23.04.2022, 18:42
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | What's indicates a fool is your personal opinion.
I, personally, consider foolish to believe the massacre like in Bucha could be done by any regular army.
Irregular armed forces are much more likely candidate.
As per so-called "proofs".. There's been so many of those in the past years | | | | | NATO soldiers are specifically trained to behave civilized in extreme stress situations (to not let only basic instincts take over), while Russian soldiers are not trained in that topic at all.
Therefore, it is not surprising at all how they behave.
If you say that couldn't be done by regular army, maybe Russian army doesn't deserve to be called "an army" then. More like a wild bunch of bandits and thieves.
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23.04.2022, 18:54
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Remind me, what's the politics of the guy in charge of that group? (I don't mean Putin!) | | | | | Apart from his Nazi tattoos, he is probably just a bloodthirsty thug who would murder for whoever pays. Won't attach too much politics, but I could be wrong. This outfit is nothing but irregular Russian troops to do the dirty work and allow the Kremlin plausible (?) deniability. Polite peope, little green men etc.
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23.04.2022, 19:31
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SG
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Source please.
Officially announced purpose of operation is denazification.
No one in their right mind will identify a bunch of freaks with the Ukrainian people. | | | | | Ok, I bite: | Quote: | |  | | | The purpose of this operation is to protect people who, for eight years now, have been facing humiliation and genocide perpetrated by the Kiev regime. To this end, we will seek to demilitarise and denazify Ukraine, as well as bring to trial those who perpetrated numerous bloody crimes against civilians, including against citizens of the Russian Federation. | | | | | Granted, it's only the Kremlin, not Putin himself. But there's a chance he actually says exactly that in one of the clips on the page the quote is taken from.
Last edited by Urs Max; 23.04.2022 at 19:42.
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23.04.2022, 19:41
| Member | | Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Zurich Witikon
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | NATO soldiers are specifically trained to behave civilized in extreme stress situations (to not let only basic instincts take over), while Russian soldiers are not trained in that topic at all.
Therefore, it is not surprising at all how they behave.
If you say that couldn't be done by regular army, maybe Russian army doesn't deserve to be called "an army" then. More like a wild bunch of bandits and thieves. | | | | | And how exactly they behave?
But please without references to the tabloids and the officials who quote them
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23.04.2022, 20:31
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | And how exactly they behave?
But please without references to the tabloids and the officials who quote them | | | | | Avoid killing civilians, don't drink alcohol, don't rape, don't steal, don't execute PoWs, don't bring fu**ing mobile crematories.
Last edited by Excad; 23.04.2022 at 20:34.
Reason: avoid killing
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23.04.2022, 20:33
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Nyon
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
You guys. Enough is enough. I am now ignoring this thread.
It’s a real pity we can’t have a civilized discussion on the situation in Ukraine.
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23.04.2022, 20:39
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | ...If you say that couldn't be done by regular army, maybe Russian army doesn't deserve to be called "an army" then. More like a wild bunch of bandits and thieves. | | | | | From what I've read, many of those in the Russian military are conscripts and didn't know exactly what was going to happen until things got underway. As such I can't paint every single one of them as a "bandit and a thief". A large portion are probably just scared kids who haven't had much training. Another part might be bullies-at-heart who love the idea of having power.
I suspect there's quite a mix. Some Putin loyalists as well as some who don't really like the idea but the military is what supports their family. They know what happens to people who cross Putin.
I'm not defending what has happened. But war is ugly and people don't behave as they would in peacetime. | 
23.04.2022, 21:14
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lummerland
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | You guys. Enough is enough. I am now ignoring this thread.
It’s a real pity we can’t have a civilized discussion on the situation in Ukraine. | | | | | But we are having a civilized discussion, by now almost 300 pages of it. That it´s not always going your way doesn´t mean you should quit now.
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23.04.2022, 21:16
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Remind me, what's the politics of the guy in charge of that group? (I don't mean Putin!) | | | | | the same as azov battalions.
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23.04.2022, 21:31
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | the same as azov battalions. | | | | | Now we know what happens when you give football hooligans weapons.
Wagner group vrs. Azov, now that would be a death match worth watching. I read somewhere that members of the Wagner group fought American troops in Africa and got their asses handed to them with a few non standard, surplus holes punched.
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