World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? - Page 300

Excad · #**5981** 26.04.2022, 16:43

Ok, so we have now two "proofs" that Ukraine is "nazified":
- Azov battalion
- 2% support for very right-wing party

Can we find more or should I already consider that "a righteous reason for war"?

Aleydis · #**5982** 26.04.2022, 16:48

And regarding Lavrov saying that it is a proxy war. How can it be if this is a special military operation? The man did not misspoke. The change in rhetoric is very worrying or, in other words, this is going south fast. Hence the opinion that a frozen conflict could be a solution. Hopefully, there will be a change of leadership in Russia soon - maybe a certain someone has a heart attack. But under the present circumstances that certain someone may well remain a people's hero, history Books of Putin the Great, monuments, you name it. Who will come along as next? Definitely not Navalny.

vushka · #**5983** 26.04.2022, 17:08

	Quote:	Excad
	Ok, so we have now two "proofs" that Ukraine is "nazified": - Azov battalion - 2% support for very right-wing party Can we find more or should I already consider that "a righteous reason for war"?

don't forget one of their national hero's being a nazi collaborator who was involved in torturing and massacring thousands of poles.

komsomolez · #**5984** 26.04.2022, 17:11

	Quote:	vushka
	don't forget one of their national hero's being a nazi collaborator who was involved in torturing and massacring thousands of poles.

Oh yes, the Russians have always cared much for the Poles ...

Phil_MCR · #**5985** 26.04.2022, 17:16

	Quote:	Excad
	Ok, so we have now two "proofs" that Ukraine is "nazified": - Azov battalion - 2% support for very right-wing party Can we find more or should I already consider that "a righteous reason for war"?

don't bother. the de-nazification was just a (not very convincing) excuse to help sell the war internally.

roegner · #**5986** 26.04.2022, 17:28

	Quote:	Excad
	Ok, so we have now two "proofs" that Ukraine is "nazified": - Azov battalion - 2% support for very right-wing party

If that ever was the reason, guess they want to invade France now?

greenmount · #**5987** 26.04.2022, 17:45

	Quote:	komsomolez
	Oh yes, the Russians have always cared much for the Poles ...

Indeed, they care so much that were very quick to call them "hyenas" when Poland announced they're gonna help Ukraine with weapons.

Don't you love that neighbourly attitude.

vushka · #**5988** 26.04.2022, 17:49

	Quote:	slammer
	That is the very insidious method that Russia is using. Thing is that Russia is not lying, but they are spinning and twisting truths, half truths and manipulating out of all proportion to justify attacking Ukraine. It’s a tried and tested method and works every time.

exactly this. ukraine does have some problems with fascism (state sanctioned neo-nazis) but they are obviously not all nazis. putin has exploited this at a time when many western nations have their own problems which complicates things.

greenmount · #**5989** 26.04.2022, 17:53

	Quote:	roegner
	If that ever was the reason, guess they want to invade France now?

Hmm. It wouldn't be that impossible though. There was actually a scandal in France about this.
It has surfaced years later because Sarkozy, like many French (politicians) is just a vain man, but he was threatened by Putin in 2007.
I'll post the link as soon as I find it.

Yep, here it is.
So please, those that are relaxed thinking Russian will never attack them, Russia only wants the Eastern territories of Europe, think again. There's nothing to be relaxed about.

	Quote:
	Incumbent Russian President Vladimir Putin reportedly humiliated and threatened former French President Nicolas Sarkozy in a private meeting during a G8 summit organized in 2007. A documentary aired by France 2 TV on Thursday revealed, after a lapse of several years, that Putin struck back against the criticisms of the then French President Sarkozy. The witness reports that Sarkozy said to his Russian counterparts that the murder of Chechens taking place, the murder of the journalist Anna Politkovskaya, and the abuse of human and homosexual rights in Russia were unacceptable to him. Putin then kept silent for a while, making Sarkozy feel uncomfortable before asking him if he was done, according to the witness. ''Your country is small like this'' described Putin with his hands, ''and mine is big like this'' added the Russian president stretching his arms in reference to the respective size of both France and Russia. ''You either keep talking to me like this and I crush you, or you stop there and I make the King of Europe out of you'' smashed Putin, also reminding Sarkozy that he had only just become the president of France. French media outlets had long wondered whether Sarkozy was drunk during the press conference with journalists which followed the private meeting with Putin, considering his manners, overall appearance and speech. Years later, critics consider that Sarkozy was still in a state of shock during the press conference from the remarks made by Putin. 61-year-old Nicolas Sarkozy served as President of France between 2007 and 2012.

https://www.dailysabah.com/europe/20...entary-reveals

slammer · #**5990** 26.04.2022, 18:07

	Quote:	Excad
	Ok, so we have now two "proofs" that Ukraine is "nazified": - Azov battalion - 2% support for very right-wing party Can we find more or should I already consider that "a righteous reason for war"?

Seems to have worked, at least for the Kremlin, worked to convince Iwan and Natasha.
Just imagine. The war has gone great for Russia, there was hardly any resistance by Ukraine forces, Russian troops were greeted with open arms and there is a Russia- friendly government in Kiew.
This war would already half forgotten, overshadowed by whom the Kardashians were screwing. The generic public has the attention span of a gnat and a collective intelligence to match. Come Autumn and most Americans would not be able to find Ukraine on a map.
Perhaps that was the Kremlins grand plan.

marton · #**5991** 26.04.2022, 20:03

	Quote:	slammer
	Seems to have worked, at least for the Kremlin, worked to convince Iwan and Natasha. Just imagine. The war has gone great for Russia, there was hardly any resistance by Ukraine forces, Russian troops were greeted with open arms and there is a Russia- friendly government in Kiew. This war would already half forgotten, overshadowed by whom the Kardashians were screwing. The generic public has the attention span of a gnat and a collective intelligence to match. Come Autumn and most Americans would not be able to find Ukraine on a map. Perhaps that was the Kremlins grand plan.

Of course, if Iwan and Natasha's children do not ever come home then they may have a different view.

Been a lot of reports in the last few days of fires in Russia in military bases, defence factories, army recruiting offices, and police stations. Of course, this may be a situation normal for Russia because before the war there was not much reporting of fires in Russia for us to compare with.

For example, Russian Air Force base in Ussuriysk on fire.
Ussuriysk is over 9,000 Km from Kyiv so hard to believe it was a Ukrainian attack.

Axa · #**5992** 26.04.2022, 20:56

Well, it's time for Saudi Arabia and Qatar to say something.

	Quote:
	Russia will halt gas flows to Poland on Wednesday (27.04.2022) in a major escalation in the standoff between Moscow and Europe over energy supplies and the war in Ukraine. Moscow appears to be making good on a threat to cut off gas supplies to countries that refuse Vladimir Putin’s new demand to pay in rubles. Europe has said that doing so would breach sanctions and strengthen Russia’s hand unacceptably. Poland has been particularly vociferous in its criticism of Russia over the war.

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/20...and-gas-xxxxxx

komsomolez · #**5993** 26.04.2022, 21:03

	Quote:	Axa
	Well, it's time for Saudi Arabia and Qatar to say something. https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/20...and-gas-xxxxxx

Interesting. Looks like flows through Nordstream and Ukraine will continue. Supply to Poland ending contractually anyhow by end of the year. So I guess this is a warning shot to other buyers that won't cost the Russians much.

Feels like another Russian miscalculation though. We will see.

slammer · #**5994** 26.04.2022, 21:15

It´s all about the spin...
Interesting little snippet in the Tehran times suggesting that this is actually a war between the US and Russia with Ukraine being the casualty.
Looks like the rest of the world is catching on.https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/472...raine-has-only

komsomolez · #**5995** 26.04.2022, 21:33

The Tehran Times ...

slammer · #**5996** 26.04.2022, 21:49

	Quote:	komsomolez
	The Tehran Times ...

Yup, a source of true news and discovery.

komsomolez · #**5997** 26.04.2022, 22:10

	Quote:	Axa
	Well, it's time for Saudi Arabia and Qatar to say something. https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/20...and-gas-xxxxxx

Bulgaria cut also as of tomorrow.

Axa · #**5998** 26.04.2022, 22:44

	Quote:	komsomolez
	Bulgaria cut also as of tomorrow.

Directly from the Russia press agency. Even the Russians acknowledge Bulgaria can get natural gas from somewhere else (Azerbaijan).

	Quote:
	SOFIA, March 19 (2022). /TASS/. Bulgaria will not negotiate a new gas supplies contract with Russia’s Gazprom to replace the current one, which expires on December 31, 2022, Bulgarian Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance Asen Vasilev said on Saturday. "In the current situation, we have no possibility to hold negotiations with Gazprom," he said in an interview with Bulgaria’s national radio. According to Vasilev, his country "has alternatives" to a new agreement with Gazprom. In his words, gas can be supplied to Bulgaria via the trans-Balkan gas pipeline, which has a capacity of around 20 billion cubic meters whereas Bulgaria needs only some three cubic meters. Apart from that, the country can count on gas supplies from Azerbaijan and on liquefied gas supplies. Experts also told TASS that Bulgaria can receive gas from alternative sources but its price will be much higher.

https://tass.com/economy/1424647

But a pipeline needs to be completed before gas flows from Greece to Bulgaria. The expected completion date is June 2022, then testing and final operation by September 2022.

https://www.ekathimerini.com/economy...y-end-of-june/

komsomolez · #**5999** 26.04.2022, 23:01

Russia making more friends. I mean, Bulgaria, for f---'s sakes. This looks like it is going to be painful. For Europe, a lot, but more so for Russia. I cannot see this achieving the West to obide.

The bad news is that Putin is not seeing this the same way. Makes him take "irrational" decisions from our standpoint.

komsomolez · #**6000** 27.04.2022, 00:03

We will need to arm up. We, as in civilized Europe. I would welcome if Germany would enter a discussion with France and the UK for a joint nuclear defense scheme. Which of course means Germany, and maybe Poland and others, need to acquire nuclear arms. On top of a lot of conventional weapons.

Why? No way I count on the US protecting Europe by Jan 2025.