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  #6161  
Old 04.05.2022, 11:31
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Now you know why NS propaganda got rid of details.
LOL!
A complete lack of facts proves your case

Actually, I heard your real father was also Jewish but sadly the paternity test got lost in the post
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  #6162  
Old 04.05.2022, 12:27
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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LOL!
A complete lack of facts proves your case

Actually, I heard your real father was also Jewish but sadly the paternity test got lost in the post
If only…. He came from (ahem) Blackburn
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  #6163  
Old 04.05.2022, 12:58
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Questions are not the problem. The real issue is that calling for volunteers in St. Petersburg and Moscow will create lots of Russian asylum seekers of an specific gender and age bracket in Western Europe.
Something along those lines could actually be part of Biden's plan to weaken Russia. It would be a triple win (for the emigrant, the destination country, as well as the "weaken" strategy) if the west got more highly educated Russians to emigrate, especially in the MINT sector.
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  #6164  
Old 04.05.2022, 13:27
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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it just seems to me that if lavrov suggesting hitler may have had jewish blood is problematic then ukraine having a state-sanctioned neo-nazi battalion would also be problematic...
Let's see, 900 soldiers in Azov. Of whom ~150 may be neo-nazis. And then of course there's the 8000 strong Wagner group actively sponsored by Putin and lead by a neo-nazi.

If Ukraine has a state-sanctioned neo-nazi battalion, as opposed to a battalion that has 10-20% soldiers who say they're neo-nazis, then that might be problematic. But not really problematic enough, I feel, to mean that the invasion of Ukraine was not rather more problematic.

Also, not as problematic as repeating a vicious antisemitic conspiracy theory. What next? The blood libel?
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  #6165  
Old 04.05.2022, 14:12
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Something along those lines could actually be part of Biden's plan to weaken Russia. It would be a triple win (for the emigrant, the destination country, as well as the "weaken" strategy) if the west got more highly educated Russians to emigrate, especially in the MINT sector.
"US President Joe Biden has asked the US Congress to amend the Immigration and Nationality Act to make it easier for highly educated Russians to obtain visas to work in the US.
Tens of thousands of highly educated Russians have reportedly fled Russia since the war, and the US administration is hoping to take advantage of that brain drain, officials said."
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  #6166  
Old 04.05.2022, 14:14
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Seriously, this whole series of "who's the nazi" arguments is getting a bit old now. I mean, can there be a more obvious trolling argument than just bringing up nazism? Oh, yes, I suspect abortion, right? I guess religion is out, that wouldn't work in Russia vs Ukraine lol.



Let's stop arguing this stupid nazism non-issue. The invasion of Ukraine is completely unjustified, there's no argument that can justify the unprecedented scale of destruction that Russia is inflicting on its neighbour.
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Old 04.05.2022, 14:51
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Seriously, this whole series of "who's the nazi" arguments is getting a bit old now. I mean, can there be a more obvious trolling argument than just bringing up nazism? Oh, yes, I suspect abortion, right? I guess religion is out, that wouldn't work in Russia vs Ukraine lol.



Let's stop arguing this stupid nazism non-issue. The invasion of Ukraine is completely unjustified, there's no argument that can justify the unprecedented scale of destruction that Russia is inflicting on its neighbour.
let's all just agree that any argument about nazis being part of the reason for the invasion of ukraine is not true. it's just a justification given to the domestic audience and only swallowed by those who want to believe it.

that said, russia does have its reasons for the invasion and that is not going to change. i think we're at risk of getting into a wider conflict with russia and potentially a ww3 scenario.

although on balance, it might be favourable to fight the war with russia now and decide things one way or the other rather than fighting a future war in a scenario where russia has annexed parts of ukraine and moldova and we have a direct nato/russia conflict.

either russia loses and accepts that it loses its buffers and will have permanent geostrategic weaknesses. or russia wins and we have a partitioned ukraine with a russia/nato tinderbox in europe.

the issue is that the first scenario is politically impossible for putin and so the only way to achieve that would be for him to be ousted. i'm not sure europe has the will to fight to prevent the second outcome.
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  #6168  
Old 04.05.2022, 15:16
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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let's all just agree that any argument about nazis being part of the reason for the invasion of ukraine is not true. it's just a justification given to the domestic audience and only swallowed by those who want to believe it.

that said, russia does have its reasons for the invasion and that is not going to change. i think we're at risk of getting into a wider conflict with russia and potentially a ww3 scenario.

although on balance, it might be favourable to fight the war with russia now and decide things one way or the other rather than fighting a future war in a scenario where russia has annexed parts of ukraine and moldova and we have a direct nato/russia conflict.

either russia loses and accepts that it loses its buffers and will have permanent geostrategic weaknesses. or russia wins and we have a partitioned ukraine with a russia/nato tinderbox in europe.

the issue is that the first scenario is politically impossible for putin and so the only way to achieve that would be for him to be ousted. i'm not sure europe has the will to fight to prevent the second outcome.
Whether Russia wins or loses there will still be a Russia/NATO tinderbox in europe.
Nothing is finally settled by either winning or losing, examples;
Falkland Islands
Kosovo
India/Pakistan
Turkey/Kurds
Israel/Palestine
Armenia–Azerbaijan
&&&&&
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  #6169  
Old 04.05.2022, 16:07
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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let's all just agree that any argument about nazis being part of the reason for the invasion of ukraine is not true. it's just a justification given to the domestic audience and only swallowed by those who want to believe it.

that said, russia does have its reasons for the invasion and that is not going to change. i think we're at risk of getting into a wider conflict with russia and potentially a ww3 scenario.

although on balance, it might be favourable to fight the war with russia now and decide things one way or the other rather than fighting a future war in a scenario where russia has annexed parts of ukraine and moldova and we have a direct nato/russia conflict.

either russia loses and accepts that it loses its buffers and will have permanent geostrategic weaknesses. or russia wins and we have a partitioned ukraine with a russia/nato tinderbox in europe.

the issue is that the first scenario is politically impossible for putin and so the only way to achieve that would be for him to be ousted. i'm not sure europe has the will to fight to prevent the second outcome.
If NATO (defensive alliance) would attack first, then you would feed Russia's thinking "NATO is the grave threat" for many Russians generations.
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  #6170  
Old 04.05.2022, 16:31
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Something along those lines could actually be part of Biden's plan to weaken Russia. It would be a triple win (for the emigrant, the destination country, as well as the "weaken" strategy) if the west got more highly educated Russians to emigrate, especially in the MINT sector.
Putin wanted to denazifi Ukraine, but the answer from other nations has been Deputnize Russia. The overall sanctions aim to reduce Russia's war capabilities for the next 10-20 years. This highly educated generation finding asylum abroad is for sure a blow to Russia's expansion ambitions.

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"US President Joe Biden has asked the US Congress to amend the Immigration and Nationality Act to make it easier for highly educated Russians to obtain visas to work in the US.
Tens of thousands of highly educated Russians have reportedly fled Russia since the war, and the US administration is hoping to take advantage of that brain drain, officials said."
Some weeks ago, there were stories of Russian asylum seekers flying traveling from Russia via Turkey, Cancun, Tijuana to the US....and then getting stuck on the Mexican side of the border. Now they are welcome https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...d5e137c0ca8460
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  #6171  
Old 04.05.2022, 16:39
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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either russia loses and accepts that it loses its buffers and will have permanent geostrategic weaknesses. or russia wins and we have a partitioned ukraine with a russia/nato tinderbox in europe.
More realistically probably Putin keeps an open conflict with Ukraine at infinitum on whatever frontline the current battles end up at. Keeping an ongoing war plays directly into his hand, he can use it to justify all the poverty and sacrifices this will bring onto to regular russians while he remains in power.

Putin needs a long running war more than anyone else in this conflict - ok, except maybe Lukashenko... He needs a war too BTW after almost being ousted in the protests a year or so ago
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  #6172  
Old 04.05.2022, 19:15
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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More realistically probably Putin keeps an open conflict with Ukraine at infinitum on whatever frontline the current battles end up at. Keeping an ongoing war plays directly into his hand, he can use it to justify all the poverty and sacrifices this will bring onto to regular russians while he remains in power.

Putin needs a long running war more than anyone else in this conflict - ok, except maybe Lukashenko... He needs a war too BTW after almost being ousted in the protests a year or so ago
Does he? Russia is bleeding soldiers and weaponry. I don't think they can sustain that in combination with the sanctions. Of course one can argue why not if North Korea can. But most Russians have gotten a sniff of prosperity.

If he wants a low intensity conflict and septic wound to Ukraine, he might declare some form of bullshit victory in the Donbas on Monday (a la "mission accomplished" and "democratic referenda" on joining Russia). If he wants a full victory, he might double down and call for general mobilization. Which might destabilize everything, incl. Russia domestically, very quickly.
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Old 04.05.2022, 19:56
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Lavrov apparently claims that Israel is cooperating with Ukraine's so-called neo-nazi regime.

I hear Israel's military has ongoing practice since forever and is battle-ready at a moment's notice. Given the outrage he's already caused in Israel I wouldn't be surprised if Lavrov's allegations became fact rather soon. Although Israel has traditionally good connections with Russia.

Still, "careful what you wish for".
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  #6174  
Old 04.05.2022, 20:03
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Lavrov apparently claims that Israel is cooperating with Ukraine's so-called neo-nazi regime.

I hear Israel's military has ongoing practice since forever and is battle-ready at a moment's notice. Given the outrage he's already caused in Israel I wouldn't be surprised if Lavrov's allegations became fact rather soon. Although Israel has traditionally good connections with Russia.

Still, "careful what you wish for".
So far Israel has refused to supply their iron dome anti missile system to Ukraine, hopefully that will change.
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Old 04.05.2022, 21:53
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Of course one can argue why not if North Korea can. But most Russians have gotten a sniff of prosperity.

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The generic Russian is like a mushroom, kept in the dark, fed horseshit and as soon as he rises up gets his head cut off
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Old 04.05.2022, 21:58
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The generic Russian is like a mushroom, kept in the dark, fed horseshit and as soon as he rises up gets his head cut off
What a flattering picture. My point was that a large share of the Russian population (at least in the cities) have been fed McDonalds, Ikea and the occasional kebap in Antalya or Cyprus. This is very different from North Korea, and I expect they will ask for their cheeseburgers and Billy cupboards. And they won't been keen on getting called up for the army.
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Old 04.05.2022, 23:19
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The generic Russian is like a mushroom, kept in the dark, fed horseshit and as soon as he rises up gets his head cut off
It's funny, I'll admit that, but you are describing what is done to a generic Russian, and not what is he like. It's kind of symptomatic and really sad (almost like we're not talking about human being), but also true.
I'm more interested in "what is he like" - when dust fell down and Putin's head is on a pike - what will happen then?
That's where I really want to believe that generic Russian has some qualities, which will emerge and Russia will become finally part of the so called West.
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  #6178  
Old 04.05.2022, 23:33
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Let's see, 900 soldiers in Azov. Of whom ~150 may be neo-nazis. And then of course there's the 8000 strong Wagner group actively sponsored by Putin and lead by a neo-nazi.

If Ukraine has a state-sanctioned neo-nazi battalion, as opposed to a battalion that has 10-20% soldiers who say they're neo-nazis, then that might be problematic. But not really problematic enough, I feel, to mean that the invasion of Ukraine was not rather more problematic.

Also, not as problematic as repeating a vicious antisemitic conspiracy theory. What next? The blood libel?
well according to wikipedia and various media outlets they are described as a neo-nazi battalion who are officially integrated into the ukrainian military. also problematic enough for us congress to previously block military aid for them due to their white supremacist ideology.

and although im not at all surprised that azovs numbers are dwindling do you have a source for your claim they only have 900 members?
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Old 04.05.2022, 23:53
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I'm more interested in "what is he like" - when dust fell down and Putin's head is on a pike - what will happen then?
I'd rather not see that, even if you meant it figuratively. Because revolutions are inherently violent, that's never a positive thing, much less in a country full of nukes.
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Old 04.05.2022, 23:57
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Various fires in Russia:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...war-challenge/
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