Russia is directly involved, not a proxy war for them.

If you think this is a proxy war for the west, doesn't that force the conclusion that the events leading to it, including Euromaidan and Crimea and all that followed, happened with (possibly due to) western participation and meddling, too? That this has been a proxy conflict for a long time, probably even from before Bush's 2008 speech in Bukarest?

We are running in circles with that proxy war definition.

Yes, it's a proxy war, but not in the name of US.
It's in the name of every human being, which believes that these:

- freedom of speech
- freedom of choices in life
- not being robbed systemically

are important factors to have decent life.

That's why every nation wishing to support Ukraine (including US) has every right to do so.

Lots of claims the Russian frigate Admiral Makarov is on fire after a hit by Ukraine missile but not one photo so we can just hope and then wait and see if there is any actual evidence.

Exactly. Calling this a proxy war is very close to saying that the Ukrainians are being played by the US and the whole conflict in fact it is only about settling the score between the US and Russia. It takes responsibility away from Russia and plays into their hands.

the reality is western leaders are quite happy to watch ukrainians sacrifice themselves as long as it potentially weakens russia. see chuffs post he put it much more eloquently.

I'm sure the West has meddled a bit. Just like Russia has in various elections and referenda - allegedly... I don't believe this is really a proxy war - I'm with Excad on this one - so I don't believe that it's been going on since 2008. Or 1990.

Btw. just to add second side of the coin:

If someone believes in values that current Russia is spreading to the world, no one stops them from supporting Russia, right? I guess it's fair then.
So, come on, how many hands are you seeing raised up? Who wants to support poor, hurt Russia in their righteous anti-nazi crusade?

Seriously, if you will find one nation that will support Russia (meaning Putin) gratuitously, from the sheer empathy, you will turn my world upside down.

This is something that happens with Ukraine. There are people helping not because of some bussiness schemes, but because of the compassion.
And that thing is priceless, without that we would not be a civilization. We would still be fighting with each other with clubs over a wild boar or freaking berries in the forest (maybe that's the direction Russia is heading now).

Sadly, their options are quite constrained:

A) Ukraine fights with their own resources.
B) Ukraine fights while importing weapons and "doing the dirty job for the West".
C) Ukraine or Russia find a way to get more armies involved like the war in Korea where Koreans did most of the dirty work while there was also involvement of US and China troops. By the way, it was not a war, it was a "special operation" in the words of Harry S. Truman. Or did Truman say "police action"?
D) Surrender, lose territory to Russia and show the invader they can be pushed around in the future to get more concessions.

Option A) has not been taken even 60+ days after invasion.

Option C) can only happen if other countries send army or UN sends blue helmets. Not in the hands of Ukraine.

So, the decision for Ukrainians is between B) and D). Very strange that they so far choose B), right?

Potentially

For some it's impossible to believe nations, countries have a will of their own! A strategy of their own, goals of their own.

Their minds are simply unable to embrace such concepts.

Looks likes the Makarov has been hit, weird as I was reading a Forbes article 4 hours before that this class of ship could be vulnerable to Ukraine attacks

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...73007.html?amp

Note: this was one of a small fleet passing through the English Channel a month or so back…

I see this differently. Above I wrote about the role of the US in the conflict NOW. They have sure done their part in order for this to happen. Moreover, they chose to play with fire, Russian head of state being a psychopath. Russia's main problem was always NATO expansion. However, nothing justifies Russian invasion of Ukraine. Some people at the top of the Russian government should be put in cages and kept there for whatever is left of their lives.

This.

There are three players, only the one not directly involved can see it as a proxy war (and does). It's rare to see the three different positions get differentiated (maybe because it's against the self-adulation of the west). It's quite Ok for two countries/groups with common interests to team up, that just doesn't mean they don't use each other.

Countries don't have friends, just (common) interests.

In my view, the differences around NATO expansion are a symptom, not the cause of the issue. And if anyone ever proved NATO expansion was right, it is Putin. But we discussed this many times.

"Chinese tech companies are quietly pulling back from doing business in Russia under pressure from U.S. sanctions and suppliers, despite calls by Beijing for companies to resist overseas coercion.

They include PC giant Lenovo Group Ltd. and smartphone and gadget maker Xiaomi Corp.

China’s exports of tech products to Russia fell sharply in March from February, with shipments of laptops declining more than 40%, smartphones down by nearly two-thirds and exports of telecom base stations down 98%, according to the most recently available Chinese government trade data."

Russia has announced their May 9 Victory day parade in Moscow will be smaller than last year. With many of their elite battle groups severely depleted by the Ukrainians it will be interesting to see who is there and what shape they are in.

Inside the battle on the Eastern Front

https://unherd.com/2022/05/inside-th...eastern-front/

Putin statue in Kyiv!?



https://twitter.com/myroslavapetsa/s...MBdgPnJIA&s=19

CIA Director Bill Burns warned on Saturday that Russian President Vladimir Putin has staked a lot on the second phase of his war in Ukraine and believes that “doubling down” on the military conflict is still his best path forward.

It is this mindset, Burns said, that makes the second phase of the offensive at least as risky — and maybe even riskier — than the first phase of the conflict.

"He's in a frame of mind in which he doesn't believe he can afford to lose," Burns said about Putin during a Financial Times event in Washington. "I think he's convinced right now that doubling down still will enable him to make progress."

“His convictions about Ukraine and the reality of Russia’s capability to continue to grind away at Ukrainian resistance — I don’t know whether that’s been shaken yet,” he added. “So the stakes are quite high.”

That view is informed by what Burns said he has observed about Putin over the last several years.

"What I've seen, especially over the last decade, is him in a way stewing in a very combustible combination of grievance and ambition and insecurity all kind of wrapped together," he said.
Burns also said that the risk of the war escalating into a nuclear conflict should not be underestimated during the second phase, even though the US intelligence community does not see “practical evidence at this point of Russian planning for deployment … of tactical nuclear weapons.”

“Given the kind of saber-rattling … we’ve heard from the Russian leadership, we can’t take lightly those possibilities,” Burns said. “At a moment when … the stakes are very high for Putin’s Russia and those risks at this second phase of the conflict are serious and should not be underestimated.”

Ramifications outside Russia: Burns also said that Russia’s conflict in Ukraine has affected China’s calculations when it comes to “how and when” it goes about attempting to take control of Taiwan.

“Clearly the Chinese leadership is trying to look carefully about the lessons they should draw from Ukraine about their own ambitions in Taiwan,” Burns said.

“I don’t think for a minute it’s eroded Xi’s determination over time to gain control over Taiwan but I think its something that’s affecting their calculation about how and when they go about doing that,” he added.

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-...09010f5966f06d

100.000 Ukrainians deported to camps across Russia, according to this report.

https://inews.co.uk/news/putin-mariu...-camps-1615516

Victory parade in Moscow today was a muted affair, no major announcement from Putin as was forecast.

The air display was cancelled "due to weather" although this web cam shows nice weather, of course, this is Russia so maybe it is an old picture.

In Ukraine civilians still die daily by the thousands for no good reason.

The recent Western artillery deliveries have not been the game changer that was forecast, maybe Ukraine has probems getting them to the front or using them correctly. I had expected the Russian artillery bombardment to have been reduced due the artillery battlefield radar, greater range and accuracy but no indication of such so far.