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Old 10.05.2022, 12:07
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrTxm9AqP38

First level - soldier taking pleasure in torturing people.
Second level - telling that to his mother and then she admits she has similar urges inside her.

I guess the level of sickness in minds of these people is just unlimited.
They really need some fu**ing collective theraphy with a shrink.

Started laughing on the 10th second. Wondering where exactly the guy has "intercepted" this nonsense )) Really poor fantasy, I saw much more talented ones from the same source pool.
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  #6282  
Old 10.05.2022, 13:00
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Started laughing on the 10th second. Wondering where exactly the guy has "intercepted" this nonsense )) Really poor fantasy, I saw much more talented ones from the same source pool.
I know that you are a very self-confident person, good for you!

Nonetheless I will still humbly ask - how do you know it is a nonsense? Do you have some proofs apart from your high self-confidence?
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  #6283  
Old 10.05.2022, 13:05
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I know that you are a very self-confident person, good for you!

Nonetheless I will still humbly ask - how do you know it is a nonsense? Do you have some proofs apart from your high self-confidence?
No, but there are no proof this "interception" is real, either.

And my self-confidence is based on many very similar "interceptions" like this in the past.
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Old 10.05.2022, 13:57
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

And war is business too. Eastern Europe countries with EU that have Russian helicopters in their fleets will have to choose between following sanctions or buying spare parts and more helicopters from Russia. I love how US company is so transparent about being happy of this development in the weapons market.

Second interesting thing is all the videos of helicopters being shot with human portable weapons. This is very valuable marketing material for US made helicopters....hey look, primitive helicopters are shot down with a human portable weapon, buy more modern stuff from me which is less vulnerable to this kind of weapons. The portable weapons are coincidentally manufactured by other company under the same umbrella group: Lockheed Martin.

So, the US industrial-military complex is alive and kicking. US prez announces lend-lease weapons program to Ukraine. Cool to support Ukraine army, but this could also be seen as marketing for US weapon manufacturers financed by the US taxpayer. Of course, this could be seen as 100% corruption, but US taxpayer gets something back in the form of local well-paid jobs and having a healthy weapons industry that can be very useful if things get uglier in the future. It might be an investment.

And yes, this is weakening Russia in the long term because use to sell helicopters to some EU countries, share development costs with customers, so producing helicopters for themselves is not that expensive. If costs are not shared with customers, costs for Russian army go up.

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European operators of Russian helicopters face an uncertain future where their need to maintain and modernize their fleets will come up against sanctions on Russian goods, which opens a door to U.S. arms manufacturers to supply them with new equipment.

Eastern European nations that belong to NATO or are wishing to at least align themselves with the U.S. and its European allies, will have difficulty obtaining spare parts for the Russian military equipment they operate. That is especially true of helicopters, which require constant maintenance and overhaul to safely operate.

Sikorsky sees this as an opportunity to boost foreign military sales of the UH-60 Black Hawk to European operators of Russian choppers like the Mi-17/8, according to President Paul Lemmo.

“It will be interesting to see, you know, in Eastern Europe, given many of them fly Russian helicopters, they're probably not going to be able to get parts for those and will look to the West as those fleets get depleted,” Lemmo told The War Zone and other outlets during a recent visit to Sikorsky’s headquarters in Stratford, Connecticut. “We certainly would like to offer them the Black Hawk as a solution.”

The world has also seen how poorly Russian helicopters fare against modern, man-portable air defense systems (MANPADS), through countless videos of them being shot down by shoulder-fired missiles in the hands of Ukrainian soldiers.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...-s-helicopters

So, helicopter company is happy. Which other weapons companies around the world are happy with market developments? Which other weapons customers from Russia will give a 2nd thought for current and future acquisitions after seeing Russian weapons underperform in real world conditions? Currently, US has about 37% market share of global arms exports, Russia around 20%. India, Saudi Arabia, Qatar are avid buyers of Russian arms and have publicly acknowledged they are not sanctioning Russia because politics. However, will they give a 2nd thought after the results seen in the real world test in Ukraine?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...t-imports-grow

So, estimates of Russian arm exports from 1992 to 2020. Vertical axis million USD. There were happy times around 2010. Sanctions and videos of helicopters being taken down will not make sales go up. Russian capabilities are getting hurt for the long term.


https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/weapons-sales
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  #6285  
Old 10.05.2022, 16:36
arz arz is offline
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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There were happy times around 2010. Sanctions and videos of helicopters being taken down will not make sales go up. Russian capabilities are getting hurt for the long term.
I think "happy times" is when Russia exports less weapons
Even in the "happy" years arms export was less than 10% of total Russian export revenue, and this fraction will keep decreasing, which I find a good trend for everyone.

Especially given that export of food, electricity, metals and other useful stuff keeps increasing, as well as total revenue, which highly unlikely will suffer from sanctions and competition.
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Old 10.05.2022, 17:34
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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No doubt it needs, to some extend, as well as many other countries these days.
But I hope some can denazify themselves without calling Russians for assistance again and again.
Glad to know that the next narrative from the Kremlin will be "we were invited in".

How will Russia denazify? Invite North Korea?

Couple of questions:
1. How does Russia being always being a champion for anti-Nazism with 17.9.1939 - 22.06.1941?
2. For the celebrations yesterday, did they get the goose-stepping synchronised?
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  #6287  
Old 10.05.2022, 17:48
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Glad to know that the next narrative from the Kremlin will be "we were invited in".

How will Russia denazify? Invite North Korea?

Couple of questions:
1. How does Russia being always being a champion for anti-Nazism with 17.9.1939 - 22.06.1941?
2. For the celebrations yesterday, did they get the goose-stepping synchronised?
I doubt Nort Korea shares your definition of nazism, neither do China or India... I really doubt if anyone else can volunteer for this job.


1. Again, your understanding of nazism and canonical history makes it difficult to understand what exact relationships Russia had with nazis. What I and all world except "collective West" knows about WWII, doesn't contradict with the fact that Russia always was and will be against nazism.

2. Allright, your definition of nazism is based on gooze step. No comments.
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  #6288  
Old 10.05.2022, 17:59
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

The comment about goose-stepping was satire. It's something we in the free west can do quite readily. Russians are often very good at it, but understand they'll go to prison if they step too far from governments line.
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What I and all world except "collective West" knows about WWII, doesn't contradict with the fact that Russia always was and will be against nazism.
Fascinating.

Firstly, the Wagner group. Led by a neo-Nazi, employed by Russia. How does that fit with "we're against Nazis"?

Second, what, precisely, was the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact about? You know - the non-aggression pact agreed with the Nazi Ribbentrop and communist Molotov?

And finally, how is the partition of Poland between Russia and Nazi Germany (between that pact and Operation Barbarossa) to be explained?
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  #6289  
Old 10.05.2022, 18:24
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Firstly, the Wagner group. Led by a neo-Nazi, employed by Russia. How does that fit with "we're against Nazis"?

Second, what, precisely, was the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact about? You know - the non-aggression pact agreed with the Nazi Ribbentrop and communist Molotov?

And finally, how is the partition of Poland between Russia and Nazi Germany (between that pact and Operation Barbarossa) to be explained?

Didn't hear anything about Wagner group being led by neo-Nazi. Could be a fake again.
Signing non-aggression act with Ribbentrop does not mean Nazification, It was just a non-aggression act.

Eastern Poland was invaded as a response to German invasion to western Poland 16 days before. Not doing so would dramatically decrease defense possibilities of Soviets.
What does it all have to do with the Nazionalist ideology? Does participation of Great Britain, France and Italy in Czechoslovakia separation in 1938 mean these countries were Nazis?

Sounds like you are overusing the term, detracting the attention from real Nazis.

Last edited by arz; 10.05.2022 at 18:43.
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Old 10.05.2022, 18:45
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Didn't hear anything about Wagner group being led by neo-Nazi. Could be a fake again.
Signing non-aggression act with Ribbentrop does not mean Nazification, It was just a non-aggression act.

Eastern Poland was invaded as a response to German invasion to western Poland 16 days before. Not doing so would dramatically decrease defense possibilities of Soviets.
What does it all have to do with the Nazionalist ideology? Sounds like you are overusing the term, detracting the attention from real Nazists.
Real Nazis? You mean like the "Russkii Obraz", and "Nashi" and the “Slavic Alliance” and the “Northern Brotherhood” and the "Rusich task force"
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Old 10.05.2022, 18:57
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Real Nazis? You mean like the "Russkii Obraz", and "Nashi" and the “Slavic Alliance” and the “Northern Brotherhood” and the "Rusich task force"

No, I mean "Azov", "Aidar", "Right sector" and few other that have been armed and taken in service by Ukrainian government.

Not the clowns you listed, who have no influence in anything
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  #6292  
Old 10.05.2022, 19:14
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Signing non-aggression act with Ribbentrop does not mean Nazification, It was just a non-aggression act.
Read deeper. That act was also about partition of Poland and Baltic States between Germany and Russia.

Now I'm really curious where did you get your primary education. Willing to share?
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  #6293  
Old 10.05.2022, 19:29
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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No, I mean "Azov", "Aidar", "Right sector" and few other that have been armed and taken in service by Ukrainian government.

Not the clowns you listed, who have no influence in anything
Whereas we consider those you've mentioned as having no influence. Now, you think we believe that because we're following the narrative the West wants us to believe.

I wonder if you could consider the possibility that you're just following the narrative the Kremlin wants you to believe?
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Old 10.05.2022, 19:37
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Didn't hear anything about Wagner group being led by neo-Nazi. Could be a fake again.
Signing non-aggression act with Ribbentrop does not mean Nazification, It was just a non-aggression act.

Eastern Poland was invaded as a response to German invasion to western Poland 16 days before. Not doing so would dramatically decrease defense possibilities of Soviets.
And there you have it. The majority mindset of Russians explained clearly.

Entirely in accord with Hugo Rifkind's article in the Times today. Which is why I knew which questions to ask. Russians don’t share our ideas of Nazism

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...zism-n3p55hz65

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My grandfather limped on to Palestine. By then, thanks to the combined efforts of Germany and Russia, he had almost no family left in the world. All of which, eight decades on, makes it fairly hard for me to regard either party as having been the good guys


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More than that, though, I think of my grandfather, with his parents dead on one side of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and his wife and daughter dead on the other. And in the middle of all that, quite a lot of the time, I doubt he much gave a toss precisely which side were the Nazis, either.
Art isn't trolling in my view. Just pouring out the mindset he's been indoctrinated with. He can't help it. He reaaly believes the lies he and his parents grew up with.

Last edited by NotAllThere; 10.05.2022 at 20:28. Reason: Fixed quotes
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Old 10.05.2022, 19:39
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Much-Hyped Sniper Wali Flees Ukraine, Says 'It Was Really Violent' In Donbas
https://www.ibtimes.com/much-hyped-s...donbas-3499643

"Many arrive in Ukraine with their chests bulging, but they leave with their tails between their legs," Wali told the news outlet.
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Old 10.05.2022, 19:46
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Whether it's a proxy war or not depends on the definition of "proxy war". There's no real consensus concerning this. Personally, I follow the OED definition:
Proxy war: a war instigated by a major power which does not itself become involved.

Accordingly, since this war was instigated by Russia and Russia is heavily involved, it is not a proxy war. (Unless you're a conspiracy theorist, in which case, you might claim that the US has been fomenting this war for decades - you know the "this is all NATO's fault, poor old Russia is just defending itself" theory.)

Others might give it a wider meaning, to include any war where either of the belligerents is receiving help from non-combatants, while not being directly involved. But the conspiracy theorist probably don't like this definition, since it doesn't imply nefarious long-term actions by the West either side.
i wonder if the west is heavily invested in ukraine because they care so much about them or if its more about using them to weaken russia...

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Old 10.05.2022, 19:50
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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And to other people, anything that's not in accord with the Kremlin narrative is "the narrative" -> WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!!

Well - it's the narrative that the Kremlin is putting out.

Anyway, never mind the humpty dumpties

Whether it's a proxy war or not depends on the definition of "proxy war". There's no real consensus concerning this. Personally, I follow the OED definition:
Proxy war: a war instigated by a major power which does not itself become involved.

Accordingly, since this war was instigated by Russia and Russia is heavily involved, it is not a proxy war. (Unless you're a conspiracy theorist, in which case, you might claim that the US has been fomenting this war for decades - you know the "this is all NATO's fault, poor old Russia is just defending itself" theory.)

Others might give it a wider meaning, to include any war where either of the belligerents is receiving help from non-combatants, while not being directly involved. But the conspiracy theorist probably don't like this definition, since it doesn't imply nefarious long-term actions by the West either side.
Accordingly, anyone and everyone who does not support your narrative is a conspiracy theorist. Nice try ))))
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Old 10.05.2022, 19:52
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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No, I mean "Azov", "Aidar", "Right sector" and few other that have been armed and taken in service by Ukrainian government.

Not the clowns you listed, who have no influence in anything
Clowns? Like those greater clowns, the very influential Ministers in the Russian Government who supported those Russian neoNazi groups listed.
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Old 10.05.2022, 19:59
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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No, but there are no proof this "interception" is real, either.

And my self-confidence is based on many very similar "interceptions" like this in the past.
And we should all judge it's a fake, because you say so? What's your point? Are you expecting us to blindly follow your opinion without questions or are you just trolling?
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Old 10.05.2022, 20:04
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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i wonder if the west is heavily invested in ukraine because they care so much about them or if its more about using them to weaken russia...

Attachment 143745
For those in the back of the class, the US already announced the primary aim is to weaken Russia

Do wake up.
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