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10.05.2022, 20:21
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Lads and ladies, just for your information as this particular topic has not been touched upon yet. This a huge grassroots movement in Russia against the war and, by way of extension, against the government. Some are so radical, that they scare the heck out of me. Apart from the obvious, the focus is also on staying safe and supporting those, who have already been detained / arrested / are facing jail time.
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10.05.2022, 20:21
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Read deeper. That act was also about partition of Poland and Baltic States between Germany and Russia.
Now I'm really curious where did you get your primary education. Willing to share?  | | | | | WWII history isn't taught in the primary school AFAIK.
Anyone with university degree can read it in multiple sources and figure out which one lies.
Read again: Partitioning of Poland served a purpose of protecting Russian border from possible German aggression.
Can you please share *your* definition of Nazism and how it applies to *any* aggression?
And the question about partitioning Czechoslovakia in 1938 remains: does it make Great Britain, Italy and France Nazi states?
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10.05.2022, 20:24
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Didn't hear anything about Wagner group being led by neo-Nazi. Could be a fake again.
Signing non-aggression act with Ribbentrop does not mean Nazification, It was just a non-aggression act.
Eastern Poland was invaded as a response to German invasion to western Poland 16 days before. Not doing so would dramatically decrease defense possibilities of Soviets.
What does it all have to do with the Nazionalist ideology? Does participation of Great Britain, France and Italy in Czechoslovakia separation in 1938 mean these countries were Nazis?
Sounds like you are overusing the term, detracting the attention from real Nazis. | | | | | You did not hear anything about the Wagner group being led by neo-Nazis?
How could you miss such information that is freely and widely available worldwide?
I recommend you use google to fill the extensive gaps in your knowledge
so you can debate with us as an equal.
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10.05.2022, 20:28
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | For those in the back of the class, the US already announced the primary aim is to weaken Russia 
Do wake up. | | | | | But only after Russia showed its true colours as a force that must be put down.
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10.05.2022, 20:34
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | You did not hear anything about the Wagner group being led by neo-Nazis?
How could you miss such information that is freely and widely available worldwide? | | | | | arz is coming from a society where information is carefully controlled. Sometimes more, sometimes less. But they're fed a narrative. It's very appealing narrative. Go against it, and you'll find the state isn't very nice. But for some reason, arz chooses to live in the repressive West instead of the glorious freedom of the former USSR.
What's interesting is that we (of the free West) are accused of also being fed a narrative. But in Western countries, journalists uncover scandal after scandal. I'm thinking Watergate, Irangate, Horizon.... So many to choose from!
In Western countries nefarious actions are found out. Corrupt politicians are (eventually!) thrown out of office. As opposed to throwing journalists and opposition politicians into prison.
When there's a local equivalent of Private Eye in Moscow, I'll believe that Russia, finally, is free.
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10.05.2022, 20:37
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | What's interesting is that we (of the free West) are accused of also being fed a narrative. . | | | | | The narrative of the "free West" ? | 
10.05.2022, 20:39
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | WWII history isn't taught in the primary school AFAIK.
Anyone with university degree can read it in multiple sources and figure out which one lies.
Read again: Partitioning of Poland served a purpose of protecting Russian border from possible German aggression. | | | | | Any Polish people here care to comment on this. "We invaded Poland to protect ourselves from Nazism".
What they also did was ship anyone living there to gulags. But that an area that Russia took control of ended up with mass deportations*? That could never happen today could it?
* They're being labelled refugees.
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10.05.2022, 20:40
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | The narrative of the "free West" ?  | | | | | Finally. Thank you.
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10.05.2022, 20:40
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | The narrative of the "free West" ?  | | | | | Yep. The one that can be freely questioned without threat of imprisonment. Or worse. And isn't a narrative, rather a bunch of 'em. Because there's always someone who'll disagree.
And WE can.
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10.05.2022, 20:47
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Apparently most of the Ukraine's military in Crimea has switched sides and now are with the Russians.
I can't blame the Russians for wanting to protect Crimea and its majority of Russian citizen. 
What's funny is that modern Ukraine has territories that were never Ukrainian at all, so hard to keep it together as it seems. 
Where as the West should honestly STFU as they seem to have very short memory  | | | | | The Kremlin narrative at the start of this thread. Didn't turn out so, did it?
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10.05.2022, 21:01
| Member | | Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Zurich Witikon
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | arz is coming from a society where information is carefully controlled. Sometimes more, sometimes less. But they're fed a narrative. It's very appealing narrative. Go against it, and you'll find the state isn't very nice. But for some reason, arz chooses to live in the repressive West instead of the glorious freedom of the former USSR.
What's interesting is that we (of the free West) are accused of also being fed a narrative. But in Western countries, journalists uncover scandal after scandal. I'm thinking Watergate, Irangate, Horizon.... So many to choose from!
In Western countries nefarious actions are found out. Corrupt politicians are (eventually!) thrown out of office. As opposed to throwing journalists and opposition politicians into prison.
When there's a local equivalent of Private Eye in Moscow, I'll believe that Russia, finally, is free. | | | | |
Switching the subject to fantasies and personal attack.
Technical loss counted.
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10.05.2022, 21:23
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | But only after Russia showed its true colours as a force that must be put down. | | | | | Well the US have shown their colors a long time ago - Yugoslavia
PS Lockheed Martin stock grew 30% over the last 6 months
Last edited by Aleydis; 10.05.2022 at 22:19.
Reason: A note on the US military industry
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10.05.2022, 21:23
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Read again: Partitioning of Poland served a purpose of protecting Russian border from possible German aggression. | | | | | Let me get this straight:
Russia makes a deal with Germany where they declare nonaggression to each other.
In the same deal, they decide about partition of Poland.
And Russia does it to prevent predicted aggression while signing nonaggression pact in the same document?
Is this really your view?
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10.05.2022, 21:36
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | i wonder if the west is heavily invested in ukraine because they care so much about them or if its more about using them to weaken russia... Attachment 143745 | | | | | No need to wonder, you can be certain. https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/25/p...egy/index.html | Quote: |  | | | 24.04.2022 Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin insisted Monday that Russia was failing in its Ukraine incursion, with Austin explicitly saying that the US wants to see Russia's military capabilities weakened.
The two top US officials, speaking at a news conference at an undisclosed location in Poland near the Ukrainian border, made the comments following a trip to Kyiv, where they met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to pledge US support in the war and announce that US diplomats would be returning to Ukraine.
"We want to see Russia weakened to the degree that it can't do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine," Austin said at the news conference. "So it has already lost a lot of military capability. And a lot of its troops, quite frankly. And we want to see them not have the capability to very quickly reproduce that capability." | | | | | The US may also be using this war as a marketing campaign for their arms manufacturers. All those videos of Russian helicopters and tanks blown to pieces with human portable weapons are great for sales.
Said videos are also really good to show how vulnerable are the defense systems of Russian helicopters and tanks. If I were the acquisitions guy in Saudi Arabia, I'd give it a 2nd thought before ordering a Russian helicopter.
So, apparently it's a win-win deal. Ukraine gets weapons, manufacturers in countries manufacturing said weapons get publicity and probably orders. Cherry on top is making Russian made machines look vulnerable to relatively cheap weapons.
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10.05.2022, 22:00
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Switching the subject to fantasies and personal attack.
Technical loss counted. | | | | | Of what I wrote, there's only one thing that refers to you specifically and it certainly isn't a personal attack. (That would be something like - you are deluded idiot - but I'd never say something like that). | Quote: |  | | | arz is coming from a society where information is carefully controlled. | | | | | As for fantasies. We, who've been brought up to think freely and critically, know who's living in a delusional mindscape, designed for you by people who do not have your best interests at hearts.
Which is what makes it so sad, of course. Putin is not on the side of the common Russian people. Neither is Boris Johnson/Biden - but at least we've a chance of throwing him out at the next General/Presidential Election.
Here's something to keep you amused https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA1354xJ4V8&t=44s
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Last edited by NotAllThere; 10.05.2022 at 22:10.
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10.05.2022, 22:04
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | No need to wonder, you can be certain. https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/25/p...egy/index.html
The US may also be using this war as a marketing campaign for their arms manufacturers. All those videos of Russian helicopters and tanks blown to pieces with human portable weapons are great for sales.
Said videos are also really good to show how vulnerable are the defense systems of Russian helicopters and tanks. If I were the acquisitions guy in Saudi Arabia, I'd give it a 2nd thought before ordering a Russian helicopter.
So, apparently it's a win-win deal. Ukraine gets weapons, manufacturers in countries manufacturing said weapons get publicity and probably orders. Cherry on top is making Russian made machines look vulnerable to relatively cheap weapons. | | | | | Great. The whole thing is actually a marketing exercise on behalf of arms manufacturers. Is Putin getting a kickback, do you think?
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10.05.2022, 22:05
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Let me get this straight:
Russia makes a deal with Germany where they declare nonaggression to each other.
In the same deal, they decide about partition of Poland.
And Russia does it to prevent predicted aggression while signing nonaggression pact in the same document?
And F*** Poland.
Is this really your view? | | | | | Just added something you may have missed. Of course, perhaps Russia views Poland like they view Ukraine. Never really a proper country, so to be annihilated at will. | This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post: | | 
10.05.2022, 22:17
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Great. The whole thing is actually a marketing exercise on behalf of arms manufacturers. Is Putin getting a kickback, do you think? | | | | | Nope. You're the one implying a plan. There are things resulting of human actions but not coming out of human design (spontaneous order).
I don't think the US military-industrial complex initiated the war. But, once it started...why not profit from it? They are transparent about the benefits of economic sanctions.
Where I see the marketing exercise is in the lend-lease program from US to Ukraine. But that came after the war, not before. And apparently it's something that benefits both participants of the deal. So, I don't see conspiracies. I see realpolitik and dealmaking.
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10.05.2022, 22:20
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Well the US have shown its colors a long time ago - Yugoslavia 
PS Lockheed Martin stock grew 30% over the last 6 months | | | | | These colors were "stopping ethnic cleansing".
If the Russian armament was not crap their companies would also be showing the benefit; maybe if Russia deployed their latest products in the Ukraine it would benefit, or maybe just show more failures?
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10.05.2022, 22:25
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
I suppose the Trumpites think freely and critically then <shakes head>
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