West seeking independence from russian hydrocarbons

You are like one of those wicked stepmothers trying to frighten children with stupid stories.
We are free in the west, if some idiots want to shave their heads and march around in obsolete uniforms then who cares.
Neonazis are less frightening than football supporters

Same as Germany in WW2, then.

Tom

Bit harsh, since most of Russia isn't in Europe.

Pictures of what is left of the Azov. UA apparently wants to exchange them for Russian POW, but I guess Russia prefers to starve them to death.

https://www.nzz.ch/international/ukr...cke-ld.1683562

RU soldiers pretend to leave and then shoot civilians in the back:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GUrNPPTSWM

This is quite a story.

‐----

Is Putin Sick – Or Are We Meant to Think He Is?

An oligarch close to the Kremlin was recorded on a tape saying the president is ‘very ill with blood cancer.’ Is this true, idle speculation or disinformation designed to make an erratic and paranoid dictator vulnerable?

https://newlinesmag.com/reportage/is...o-think-he-is/

Constantly rising prices.
Dependance on America for energy, in the same breath continued investment in fossil fuels.
2° warming
Another nail in the coffin of the middle class.
Private transport for the rich. (still smarting over filling the bike for 54 Euros)

Wut? Dont forget that the neo´s are just as fanatical as football supporters, maybe even more so and they have no qualms about killing you, they have access to weapons and are actively engaged in taking down democracy.

Handball supporters (some) are equally wicked and racist. It's one thing to support your favourite team, even too loudly and passionately, and totally different to use all the tricks possible, including racist incantations and gestures, to destabilise the opponents.
Heck, even this noble sport - tennis, has its fair share of idiotic supporters.
As for football ultras....scary, idiotic, probably worse than neo-nazis.

I think this "problem" is not relevant anymore.

if Russia had not invaded Ukraine, perhaps we would have talked more about Azov.

Well, here in Switzerland every third football game over the past six months before this report has been marked by violent incidents according to new data collected by the federal and cantonal authorities.

Recorded cases of hooligans lighting flares (44%) and causing damage to property (44%). The report also mentions nearly 20% of cases of injuries caused to non-participants in the violence.

How many people here injured by Neo-Nazis; none.

Two (potentially, or with a high potential for inflicting harm, be it physical or psychological) bad groups, no one is better than the other. Sure, if we want to relativise to make our point, we can say ultras have a higher destructive potential as they do destroy lots of material things when enraged, but there were a lot of neonazi incidents in Western-Southern Europe too, not necessarily in CH.

whilst we're downplaying neo-nazism it's probably worth mentioning that there are unconfirmed allegations that the nz mosque shooter reportedly travelled to ukraine and trained with azov prior to killing 51 muslims.

If you're trying to obfuscate and deflect and whataboutitize , at least use something better than unconfirmed allegations.

In that connection...

There is no evidence of the Christchurch shooter having visited Ukraine where he is said to have inspired a neo-Nazi cell. Tarrant had travelled to Russia, according to a letter he wrote from prison.

Sydney Morning Herald

In the future, remember the Gricean cooperative principle for communication, and specifically these maxims:

- Do not say what you believe is false.
- Do not say that for which you lack adequate evidence.
- Be relevant.

Only downplaying the massive upplaying of neo-nazism, to such an extent as to justify an invasion.

actually it was in his manifesto that he claimed he was in ukraine.
https://www.digitaljournal.com/world...article/546024

im pretty sure it was the us government who alleged he trained with azov battalion; this was during the time that they were trying to ban military aid to ukraine due to their links to neo-nazism and white supremacy. if you're really interested i can try and find the link for you.

Maybe we can start all that "back and forth" discussion from the end:
Vushka, do you personally wish for Russia (Federation, Euroasian league, USSR or however you'd like to call it) to reach from Lisbon to Vlodyvostok? And do you wish for NATO alliance to end?

Serves me right.

The more I see Ukraine embarassing Russian troops the more I am worried that there's a chance Putin will completely lose his s**t and in a fit of rage do something completely deranged as a way of saying "If I can't have Ukraine then no-one can"; scorched earth policy. A war-ending tactical nuke on Kyiv or similar.

Yeah, it's clear that a much bigger deal is being made out of the Azov regiment than it deserves. No-one can deny that neo-nazism and/or white supremacy is bad and must be opposed, but at the same time it's a very small proportion of Ukraines overall population and they have also been, objectively speaking, instrumental in fighting to defend Ukraine in multiple wars. Life isn't black and white.

Ok so now the message is that Russia is fighting to protect the lives of muslims in Ukraine, right? That would be rather ironic considering their recent track record in Syria, don't you think?