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12.05.2022, 19:31
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | The law of unintended consequences.
So far
1. The West largely unifies
2. Finland and Sweden join NATO (in the offing)
3. Azov becomes a political force
Any others? | | | | | West seeking independence from russian hydrocarbons
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12.05.2022, 19:38
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | i don't think any of them are glorified and celebrated like azov though. anyway im not finished yet:
6. further mass migration/social unrest due to food shortages and famine.
7. the west eventually seeking a compromise with russia, leaving ukrainians to wonder whether it was really all worth it... | | | | | You are like one of those wicked stepmothers trying to frighten children with stupid stories.
We are free in the west, if some idiots want to shave their heads and march around in obsolete uniforms then who cares.
Neonazis are less frightening than football supporters | The following 5 users would like to thank marton for this useful post: | | 
12.05.2022, 20:25
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | The Overlooked Reason Russia’s Invasion Is Floundering
Russia has failed to understand the importance of airpower. | | | | | Same as Germany in WW2, then.
Tom
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12.05.2022, 20:51
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | Bit harsh, since most of Russia isn't in Europe.
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12.05.2022, 20:56
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Pictures of what is left of the Azov. UA apparently wants to exchange them for Russian POW, but I guess Russia prefers to starve them to death. https://www.nzz.ch/international/ukr...cke-ld.1683562 | 
12.05.2022, 21:12
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
RU soldiers pretend to leave and then shoot civilians in the back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GUrNPPTSWM | This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post: | | 
12.05.2022, 22:15
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
This is quite a story.
‐----
Is Putin Sick – Or Are We Meant to Think He Is?
An oligarch close to the Kremlin was recorded on a tape saying the president is ‘very ill with blood cancer.’ Is this true, idle speculation or disinformation designed to make an erratic and paranoid dictator vulnerable? https://newlinesmag.com/reportage/is...o-think-he-is/
Last edited by komsomolez; 12.05.2022 at 22:29.
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12.05.2022, 22:40
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | The law of unintended consequences.
So far
1. The West largely unifies
2. Finland and Sweden join NATO (in the offing)
3. Azov becomes a political force
Any others? | | | | | Constantly rising prices.
Dependance on America for energy, in the same breath continued investment in fossil fuels.
2° warming
Another nail in the coffin of the middle class.
Private transport for the rich. (still smarting over filling the bike for 54 Euros)
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12.05.2022, 22:43
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | You are like one of those wicked stepmothers trying to frighten children with stupid stories.
We are free in the west, if some idiots want to shave their heads and march around in obsolete uniforms then who cares.
Neonazis are less frightening than football supporters  | | | | | Wut? Dont forget that the neo´s are just as fanatical as football supporters, maybe even more so and they have no qualms about killing you, they have access to weapons and are actively engaged in taking down democracy.
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13.05.2022, 09:01
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | You are like one of those wicked stepmothers trying to frighten children with stupid stories.
We are free in the west, if some idiots want to shave their heads and march around in obsolete uniforms then who cares.
Neonazis are less frightening than football supporters  | | | | | Handball supporters (some) are equally wicked and racist.  It's one thing to support your favourite team, even too loudly and passionately, and totally different to use all the tricks possible, including racist incantations and gestures, to destabilise the opponents.
Heck, even this noble sport - tennis, has its fair share of idiotic supporters.
As for football ultras....scary, idiotic, probably worse than neo-nazis. | Quote: | |  | | | Of course everyone is free to speak about one side of the problem | | | | | I think this "problem" is not relevant anymore.
if Russia had not invaded Ukraine, perhaps we would have talked more about Azov.
Last edited by greenmount; 13.05.2022 at 09:13.
Reason: merged posts
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13.05.2022, 09:22
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Wut? Dont forget that the neo´s are just as fanatical as football supporters, maybe even more so and they have no qualms about killing you, they have access to weapons and are actively engaged in taking down democracy. | | | | | Well, here in Switzerland every third football game over the past six months before this report has been marked by violent incidents according to new data collected by the federal and cantonal authorities.
Recorded cases of hooligans lighting flares (44%) and causing damage to property (44%). The report also mentions nearly 20% of cases of injuries caused to non-participants in the violence.
How many people here injured by Neo-Nazis; none.
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13.05.2022, 09:34
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Well, here in Switzerland every third football game over the past six months before this report has been marked by violent incidents according to new data collected by the federal and cantonal authorities.
Recorded cases of hooligans lighting flares (44%) and causing damage to property (44%). The report also mentions nearly 20% of cases of injuries caused to non-participants in the violence.
How many people here injured by Neo-Nazis; none. | | | | | Two (potentially, or with a high potential for inflicting harm, be it physical or psychological) bad groups, no one is better than the other. Sure, if we want to relativise to make our point, we can say ultras have a higher destructive potential as they do destroy lots of material things when enraged, but there were a lot of neonazi incidents in Western-Southern Europe too, not necessarily in CH.
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13.05.2022, 10:32
| Banned | | Join Date: May 2021 Location: transcended.
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
whilst we're downplaying neo-nazism it's probably worth mentioning that there are unconfirmed allegations that the nz mosque shooter reportedly travelled to ukraine and trained with azov prior to killing 51 muslims.
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13.05.2022, 11:09
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
If you're trying to obfuscate and deflect and whataboutitize  , at least use something better than unconfirmed allegations.
In that connection...
There is no evidence of the Christchurch shooter having visited Ukraine where he is said to have inspired a neo-Nazi cell. Tarrant had travelled to Russia, according to a letter he wrote from prison. Sydney Morning Herald
In the future, remember the Gricean cooperative principle for communication, and specifically these maxims:
- Do not say what you believe is false.
- Do not say that for which you lack adequate evidence.
- Be relevant.
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13.05.2022, 11:16
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | whilst we're downplaying neo-nazism.... | | | | | Only downplaying the massive upplaying of neo-nazism, to such an extent as to justify an invasion.
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13.05.2022, 11:26
| Banned | | Join Date: May 2021 Location: transcended.
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | If you're trying to obfuscate and deflect and whataboutitize , at least use something better than unconfirmed allegations.
In that connection...
There is no evidence of the Christchurch shooter having visited Ukraine where he is said to have inspired a neo-Nazi cell. Tarrant had travelled to Russia, according to a letter he wrote from prison. Sydney Morning Herald | | | | | actually it was in his manifesto that he claimed he was in ukraine. https://www.digitaljournal.com/world...article/546024
im pretty sure it was the us government who alleged he trained with azov battalion; this was during the time that they were trying to ban military aid to ukraine due to their links to neo-nazism and white supremacy. if you're really interested i can try and find the link for you.
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13.05.2022, 11:28
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | whilst we're downplaying neo-nazism it's probably worth mentioning that there are unconfirmed allegations that the nz mosque shooter reportedly travelled to ukraine and trained with azov prior to killing 51 muslims. | | | | | Maybe we can start all that "back and forth" discussion from the end:
Vushka, do you personally wish for Russia (Federation, Euroasian league, USSR or however you'd like to call it) to reach from Lisbon to Vlodyvostok? And do you wish for NATO alliance to end?
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13.05.2022, 11:35
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | actually it was in his manifesto that he claimed he was in ukraine. https://www.digitaljournal.com/world...article/546024
im pretty sure it was the us government who alleged he trained with azov battalion; this was during the time that they were trying to ban military aid to ukraine due to their links to neo-nazism and white supremacy. if you're really interested i can try and find the link for you. | | | | | Serves me right. | This user would like to thank MajorGrubert for this useful post: | | 
13.05.2022, 11:36
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
The more I see Ukraine embarassing Russian troops the more I am worried that there's a chance Putin will completely lose his s**t and in a fit of rage do something completely deranged as a way of saying "If I can't have Ukraine then no-one can"; scorched earth policy. A war-ending tactical nuke on Kyiv or similar. | Quote: | |  | | | Only downplaying the massive upplaying of neo-nazism, to such an extent as to justify an invasion. | | | | | Yeah, it's clear that a much bigger deal is being made out of the Azov regiment than it deserves. No-one can deny that neo-nazism and/or white supremacy is bad and must be opposed, but at the same time it's a very small proportion of Ukraines overall population and they have also been, objectively speaking, instrumental in fighting to defend Ukraine in multiple wars. Life isn't black and white.
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13.05.2022, 11:45
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Lausanne
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | whilst we're downplaying neo-nazism it's probably worth mentioning that there are unconfirmed allegations that the nz mosque shooter reportedly travelled to ukraine and trained with azov prior to killing 51 muslims. | | | | |
Ok so now the message is that Russia is fighting to protect the lives of muslims in Ukraine, right? That would be rather ironic considering their recent track record in Syria, don't you think?
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