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  #6381  
Old 13.05.2022, 11:50
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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actually it was in his manifesto that he claimed he was in ukraine.
https://www.digitaljournal.com/world...article/546024

im pretty sure it was the us government who alleged he trained with azov battalion; this was during the time that they were trying to ban military aid to ukraine due to their links to neo-nazism and white supremacy. if you're really interested i can try and find the link for you.
From your link,

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Tarrant's manifesto claims he visited the Ukraine during his many travels abroad. The flak jacket that Tarrant wore during his assault has the Wolf’s angel symbol one of the early symbols of the Nazi party and used by the Azov Battalion. Tarrant claimed that he was also in touch with the Anders Breivik the Norwegian terrorist. He also visited sites where there were historic battles between Christians and Muslims no doubt prompted by and reinforcing his anti-Muslim views. It remains to be seen if there is evidence of further ties between Tarrant and the Azov Battalion.
.....

Try harder. For the author of the article "ties" means he visited Ukraine* and Azov was in Ukraine, hence he was trained by Azov......I don't really think anyone believes these speculations but they come in handy now.....

*he could have visited UA, as in one paragraph bellow he says "If the evidence does ultimately show that Tarrant actually went to the Ukraine to train with like-minded people than this might be the first terrorist act of a foreign fighter trained by a right-wing terrorist group. Tarrant was not a New Zealand citizen."

I have other leads for you....

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Tarrant live-streamed for 17 minutes (before and during the first shooting, and between the two shootings) on Facebook Live, starting with the drive to the Al Noor mosque and ending as he drove away.[48] Just before the shooting, he played several songs, including "Remove Kebab", a Serb nationalist and anti-Muslim song; and "The British Grenadiers", a traditional British military marching song.[49][50][51] During the shooting, he continued to play "military music" from a portable speaker attached to a tactical vest he was wearing.[12][52]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ...gs#Perpetrator

Maybe he was just....sick?

Last edited by greenmount; 13.05.2022 at 12:17.
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  #6382  
Old 13.05.2022, 12:24
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Yeah, it's clear that a much bigger deal is being made out of the Azov regiment than it deserves. No-one can deny that neo-nazism and/or white supremacy is bad and must be opposed, but at the same time it's a very small proportion of Ukraines overall population and they have also been absolutely instrumental in fighting for its safety in multiple wars. Life isn't black and white.
i actually mostly agree with chuff, the situation is rather complex and there's obviously very fine people on both sides.
the only thing i would add is that many normal ukrainians do see people/groups like bandera/azov as national heroes. whilst i can understand them it's certainly problematic.
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Old 13.05.2022, 12:59
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Well, no surprises:

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Ukraine war is a windfall for Swiss arms industry

Production lines can barely keep up, stock prices are soaring, and requests keep pouring in from across Europe. The global rearmament effort in the wake of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is grist to the mill for Swiss arms companies.

...workers at the Swiss factories in Altdorf and Zurich, which produce air defence systems, radar and ammunition for the German automotive and arms manufacturer Rheinmetall, are under pressure to speed up production. In a message to the staff, revealed by the weekly Handelszeitung, the director of Rheinmetall’s Swiss subsidiary, Oliver Dürr, railed against the “too long delivery times”, even as market conditions are at an all-time high.

Investors clearly appreciate Rheinmetall’s efforts to step up the pace: the company’s share value has more than doubled since Vladimir Putin attacked Ukraine.
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/ukraine...&utm_content=o
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  #6384  
Old 13.05.2022, 13:20
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Maybe we can start all that "back and forth" discussion from the end:
Vushka, do you personally wish for Russia (Federation, Euroasian league, USSR or however you'd like to call it) to reach from Lisbon to Vlodyvostok? And do you wish for NATO alliance to end?
Vushka, would you care to answer that?
I have impression that we're lost in details, but lack general overview of one's worldview.
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  #6385  
Old 13.05.2022, 14:42
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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i actually mostly agree with chuff, the situation is rather complex and there's obviously very fine people on both sides.
the only thing i would add is that many normal ukrainians do see people/groups like bandera/azov as national heroes. whilst i can understand them it's certainly problematic.
Bandera died over 60 years ago, you really need to get over your obsession with imaginary neonazis and live in the present.
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  #6386  
Old 13.05.2022, 14:46
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

We are in a capitalist society where every catastrophe generates revenue and profits for somebody, what is your point?
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Old 13.05.2022, 14:47
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

I cannot believe you guys are still discussing what a Nazi is.
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Old 13.05.2022, 14:50
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I cannot believe you guys are still discussing what a Nazi is.
That's the main goal. To distract attention from Russian aggression and crimes. In this thread it works great, as I see.
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  #6389  
Old 13.05.2022, 14:58
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Maybe we can start all that "back and forth" discussion from the end:
Vushka, do you personally wish for Russia (Federation, Euroasian league, USSR or however you'd like to call it) to reach from Lisbon to Vlodyvostok? And do you wish for NATO alliance to end?
lol definitely not. i don't necessarily support russia but i have some understanding for their actions.
i see the reason for nato existing but i think there is valid criticism to be made of the organisation.
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Old 13.05.2022, 15:14
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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We are in a capitalist society where every catastrophe generates revenue and profits for somebody, what is your point?
That good times are ahead of the industrious Swiss workers.

Don't work in that domain but anyway I expect positive spillovers. Increased demand for some engineers raises demand for all engineers/scientists/consultants.
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  #6391  
Old 13.05.2022, 15:38
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Bandera died over 60 years ago, you really need to get over your obsession with imaginary neonazis and live in the present.
yet he was awarded the hero of ukraine title in 2010. that's the sort of problematic issues i referred to in my previous post.
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  #6392  
Old 13.05.2022, 15:41
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I cannot believe you guys are still discussing what a Nazi is.

Nah, thats clear.

Discussion is about who is a Nazi today, whether they should be tolerated, glorified or destroyed. Which is quite logical, since one of the officially declared goals of aggression was denazification.
Without clarity on this, one can wander endlessly in emotional assessments, which can be quite entertaining, but absolutely unconstructive
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  #6393  
Old 13.05.2022, 15:52
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The more I see Ukraine embarassing Russian troops the more I am worried that there's a chance Putin will completely lose his s**t and in a fit of rage do something completely deranged as a way of saying "If I can't have Ukraine then no-one can"; scorched earth policy. A war-ending tactical nuke on Kyiv or similar.
I'm not sure about "fit of rage" but just from a logical point of view, Putin has clearly stated where his 'red lines' are. He's shown that he's willing to back this up with military force. Through sheer numbers and attrition, he would have been able to defeat Ukraine over time even if using blunt tactics such as flattening everything along the way with artillery.

The big question mark is whether military and intelligence support from NATO puts this 'win' at risk or at least poses a huge additional cost. With the US howitzers arriving, it is questionable whether RU can continue their tactic of flattening things from a safe distance if they are now outranged by new UA equipment. Their supplies will need to be pulled further back and everything will grind to a holt (they are already barely advancing).

If unable to win conventionally, RU might be faced with a choice of fighting with nuclear/chemical/biological weapons (at huge political cost) or face a humiliating retreat/defeat. I wouldn't want to bet on Putin takingthe second option.

Therefore, the question will be what kind of face-saving exit could be offered to Putin. Keeping Crimea and enforcing terms of Minsk agreements might be the minimum acceptable by Putin, but hardly what UA will want to give up if kicking out RU completely is within their grasp.

I think this is where we then might see a turn from NATO to pull the plug on UA and force them into a negotiated settlement with RU to end the conflict and avoid escalation.
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  #6394  
Old 13.05.2022, 15:58
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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yet he was awarded the hero of ukraine title in 2010. that's the sort of problematic issues i referred to in my previous post.
Cherrypicking
You fail to mention "In January 2011, the award was officially annulled."

So there is no problematic issue

Anyway, Bandera was not a citizen of Ukraine so why are you even mentioning him?
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Old 13.05.2022, 16:36
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Erdogan is objecting to Finland and Sweden joining Nato. Pity because any decision on NATO enlargement must be made “by unanimous agreement”.
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  #6396  
Old 13.05.2022, 17:19
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Erdogan is objecting to Finland and Sweden joining Nato. Pity because any decision on NATO enlargement must be made “by unanimous agreement”.
He will probably want to be paid, in some way. As always.

These institutions are notoriously difficult to overhaul. Otherwise I would happily kick out Hungary (and if need be Turkey) in exchange for Sweden and Finland. The alternative might be mutual security guarantees with other NATO members.
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Old 13.05.2022, 18:17
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Therefore, the question will be what kind of face-saving exit could be offered to Putin. Keeping Crimea and enforcing terms of Minsk agreements might be the minimum acceptable by Putin, but hardly what UA will want to give up if kicking out RU completely is within their grasp.
I think it's quite obvious now that the two sides are so far apart now that there will not be a peaceful settlement of this conflict soon. The war will stall on some battle lines at some point, and it will remain an open low-level conflict for a long time. The kind of wound Russia likes to keep festering.

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I think this is where we then might see a turn from NATO to pull the plug on UA and force them into a negotiated settlement with RU to end the conflict and avoid escalation.
I don't see why NATO would be interested in a negotiated settlement with Russia, or if that is even remotely possible now, let alone pull the plug on Ukraine after the current commitment
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Old 13.05.2022, 20:10
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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yet he was awarded the hero of ukraine title in 2010. that's the sort of problematic issues i referred to in my previous post.
Switzerland hosts a memorial to a Russian general for invading the country, the real estate is even Russian state property.

Maybe I should apply for a Russian passport.
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Old 13.05.2022, 23:46
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Switzerland hosts a memorial to a Russian general for invading the country, the real estate is even Russian state property.

Maybe I should apply for a Russian passport.
That sounds like a bad joke.
Can you share the source?
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  #6400  
Old 14.05.2022, 00:32
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Fog of war
Lots of rumours about Russian soldiers refusing to go back to Ukraine and fight.
Luckily for them, it is a "special operation" not a declared war so the worst that can happen is they get dismissed from the army, no punishment.

Also lots of conflicting rumours about the Russian attack over the Siversky Donets river over the last few days.
Finally, it seems this attack was destroyed today with the help of western artillery, still to be confirmed with photographs.
The photographs that are available seem to show the Russians attacked without close artillery and air support so their chances of success were anyway very slim.
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