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  #6421  
Old 14.05.2022, 22:27
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Just wondering what's the sticker price of a tank
Around $7 million.
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  #6422  
Old 14.05.2022, 23:16
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Indeed, Russians tookover youtube with car dashcam videos. This is 2nd takeover with flying tank turrets.

From Chinese TV news, go to 2m20s. Just wondering what's the sticker price of a tank

A lot of civilian vehicles around, maybe not near a front line and it was the work of Ukraine's special forces.
Certainly a world height record.
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  #6423  
Old 15.05.2022, 08:04
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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A lot of civilian vehicles around, maybe not near a front line and it was the work of Ukraine's special forces.
Certainly a world height record.
I wonder how high you can get a turret to fly?
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  #6424  
Old 15.05.2022, 09:52
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Nah, thats clear.

Discussion is about who is a Nazi today, whether they should be tolerated, glorified or destroyed. Which is quite logical, since one of the officially declared goals of aggression was denazification.
Without clarity on this, one can wander endlessly in emotional assessments, which can be quite entertaining, but absolutely unconstructive
For instance a nazi is one who doesn't believe other nations have the right to exist and cherish their own culture which they believe to be different from other cultures and unique to a specific group and territory. Putin and his clique seem to fit very well this description. A nazi is also someone who starts a war of destruction and promises he will bring to oblivion that group, of which he believes is inferior to his own group and simply deserves to perish. Again, Putin and his clique fit pretty well all the nazi and fascism definitions.
Seriously now, are we still on the old accusations of fascism coming from Russia? Because it's just ridiculous and it's rich coming from their side. Not only since the invasion of Ukraine.
This war is about other things and you probably know it very well. Power. Greed. And many other things.

You better wish this war to be over and sooner than later, not to insist on the alleged fascism of a country which is being systematically destroyed as we speak.

Last edited by greenmount; 15.05.2022 at 10:07.
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  #6425  
Old 15.05.2022, 12:10
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

In August 2013, Putin said to David Cameron (while Cameron was try to get Putin to join with the UK and US in condemn the use of Sarin in Syria - only to be let down by Ed Milliband and Obama).

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Let me tell you plainly: It is easy to start a war. That is most disgusting thing to do. The most noble thing is to stop a war — it’s better if it is done by peaceful means.
Lenin said: “You probe with bayonets — if you encounter mush, proceed; if you encounter steel, withdraw” have been quoted many times. They describe Putin’s thinking perfectly. In August 2013 he probed the West with a bayonet and encountered mush, not steel.

The civil war in Syria, orchestrated by Putin, became bloodier; in 2014 he invaded Crimea; this February, it was Ukraine.

(Taken from this article in The Times - paywalled - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...-war-hq537zrlb
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  #6426  
Old 15.05.2022, 13:22
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

inconvenient facts = posts deleted for "trolling"
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  #6427  
Old 15.05.2022, 13:50
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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inconvenient facts = posts deleted for "trolling"
In the free world of Twitter, Russia's foreign ministry shares your sharp analogy. Also on Twitter, some right wing nutjobs allege that the Buffalo shooting was an FBI false flag operation.

https://twitter.com/Dpol_un/status/1...Dm_-NF4EQ&s=19
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Old 15.05.2022, 14:05
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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In the free world of Twitter, Russia's foreign ministry shares your sharp analogy. Also on Twitter, some right wing nutjobs allege that the Buffalo shooting was an FBI false flag operation.

https://twitter.com/Dpol_un/status/1...Dm_-NF4EQ&s=19
That activity from the right wing nutjobs is a problem on its own, the bigger problem is the people who believe such rubbish and then spread it.
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  #6429  
Old 15.05.2022, 14:25
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

The law of unintended consequences strikes again.

People here supported the Russian claim that they struck Ukraine to hinder NATO's eastward progression.
As the result, today Finland formally applies for Nato membership so doubling the length of NATO's eastern land border with Russia.

Michael Caine: 'Not a lot of people know that' when Kazakstahn joins NATO then Russia's border with NATO would be five times longer.
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  #6430  
Old 15.05.2022, 16:38
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Ukraine Is in Worse Shape than You Think

https://time.com/6176748/ukraine-war-economy/
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  #6431  
Old 15.05.2022, 17:17
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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i mean the west has made it pretty clear that they're willing to finance and equip ukrainians to fight but they're not willing to fight themselves. so i don't think what he said is very fringe or ridiculous at all.
For the nth time

The "West" gave Ukraine security guarantees when they gave up their nuclear weapons.
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  #6432  
Old 15.05.2022, 17:40
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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For the nth time

The "West" gave Ukraine security guarantees when they gave up their nuclear weapons.
And Russia guaranteed sovereignty.

At least we're keeping to our side of the bargain. In the meantime Finland has formally requested NATO membership. Russia says 'that's a mistake'.

Er no. Invading Ukraine, that was a mistake.
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  #6433  
Old 15.05.2022, 17:42
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Ukraine Is in Worse Shape than You Think

https://time.com/6176748/ukraine-war-economy/
Economically Ukraine was a basket case (I think I mentioned this a few hundred pages ago) and perhaps this war will turn out to be the best thing to happen to Ukraine ever. Think about it, you can draw parallels to Post war Germany, everything in ruins, a "Stunde Null" situation, then you get massive foreign investment into new infrastructure, new factories, a new society. The country was remodeled to the western ideology and was built up to be a buffer between "the west" and a belligerent Russia.
Losing WW2 was the best thing that could happen to Germany because they did great afterwards, so why canīt the same thing apply to Ukraine?
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  #6434  
Old 15.05.2022, 18:54
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Economically Ukraine was a basket case (I think I mentioned this a few hundred pages ago) and perhaps this war will turn out to be the best thing to happen to Ukraine ever. Think about it, you can draw parallels to Post war Germany, everything in ruins, a "Stunde Null" situation, then you get massive foreign investment into new infrastructure, new factories, a new society. The country was remodeled to the western ideology and was built up to be a buffer between "the west" and a belligerent Russia.
Losing WW2 was the best thing that could happen to Germany because they did great afterwards, so why canīt the same thing apply to Ukraine?
Maybe. But careful with the Germany parallels. Otherwise some twisted minds might even think Ukraine needs to be de-nazified.
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  #6435  
Old 15.05.2022, 19:03
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Maybe. But careful with the Germany parallels. Otherwise some twisted minds might even think Ukraine needs to be de-nazified.
At that point Germany was de-nazified... They all joined the CSU.
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  #6436  
Old 16.05.2022, 08:53
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Losing WW2 was the best thing that could happen to Germany because they did great afterwards, so why canīt the same thing apply to Ukraine?
Compare Eastern and Western Germany and you understand why loosing a war to Russia is a bad thing.
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  #6437  
Old 16.05.2022, 09:39
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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perhaps this war will turn out to be the best thing to happen to Ukraine ever.

Losing WW2 was the best thing that could happen to Germany because they did great afterwards, so why canīt the same thing apply to Ukraine?
The mind boggles at the sheer level of inane and ignorant garbage that spews forth from your fevered mind to your keyboard and then onto our long-suffering screens. How anyone can think thousands of people being killed, major cities being razed and millions of people being turned into refugees as "the best thing ever to happen to a country" can imo only described as somewhat unhinged and delusional.
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  #6438  
Old 16.05.2022, 09:58
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The mind boggles at the sheer level of inane and ignorant garbage that spews forth from your fevered mind to your keyboard and then onto our long-suffering screens. How anyone can think thousands of people being killed, major cities being razed and millions of people being turned into refugees as "the best thing ever to happen to a country" can imo only described as somewhat unhinged and delusional.
fully agreed. not just for Ukraine but for Germany as well at the time
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  #6439  
Old 16.05.2022, 10:09
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Well, Germany managed to get almost all of its debt wiped out (and nullified all pre-war loans both internal and external), didn't have to pay reparations (except the money we wire to Israel of course), lost a lot of people drawing a pension fund and could thus start from a clean slate.


Of course, it all came with a price-tag. But you have to wonder what some politicians these days would be willing to do if they could start again with such a clean slate?
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  #6440  
Old 16.05.2022, 10:20
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Economically Ukraine was a basket case (I think I mentioned this a few hundred pages ago) and perhaps this war will turn out to be the best thing to happen to Ukraine ever. Think about it, you can draw parallels to Post war Germany, everything in ruins, a "Stunde Null" situation, then you get massive foreign investment into new infrastructure, new factories, a new society. The country was remodeled to the western ideology and was built up to be a buffer between "the west" and a belligerent Russia.
Losing WW2 was the best thing that could happen to Germany because they did great afterwards, so why canīt the same thing apply to Ukraine?
I don't believe any comparisons can be drawn between Ukraine and post war Germany. Germany finished the second world war with the highest levels of education in the world. Remarkably, despite the allied bombing campaign, close to 95% of industry was still in tact. Germany had little war debt, Marshall aid was rolling in and there was currency reform that was introduced in a way that it wiped out people's saving but preserved business capital. One couldn't ask for a more recovery/business friendly environment.

Compare that to Ukraine, which is (comparatively) low educated, low developed country, which also had the unattractive tag of being one of the most corrupt countries in Europe.
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