Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #6421  
Old 14.05.2022, 22:27
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,197
Groaned at 348 Times in 301 Posts
Thanked 25,602 Times in 10,425 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Just wondering what's the sticker price of a tank
Around $7 million.
Reply With Quote
  #6422  
Old 14.05.2022, 23:16
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,378
Groaned at 721 Times in 605 Posts
Thanked 24,083 Times in 12,610 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Indeed, Russians tookover youtube with car dashcam videos. This is 2nd takeover with flying tank turrets.

From Chinese TV news, go to 2m20s. Just wondering what's the sticker price of a tank

A lot of civilian vehicles around, maybe not near a front line and it was the work of Ukraine's special forces.
Certainly a world height record.
Reply With Quote
  #6423  
Old 15.05.2022, 08:04
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,660
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,535 Times in 4,123 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
A lot of civilian vehicles around, maybe not near a front line and it was the work of Ukraine's special forces.
Certainly a world height record.
I wonder how high you can get a turret to fly?
Reply With Quote
  #6424  
Old 15.05.2022, 09:52
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kt.Zh
Posts: 12,161
Groaned at 487 Times in 402 Posts
Thanked 19,061 Times in 9,645 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Nah, thats clear.

Discussion is about who is a Nazi today, whether they should be tolerated, glorified or destroyed. Which is quite logical, since one of the officially declared goals of aggression was denazification.
Without clarity on this, one can wander endlessly in emotional assessments, which can be quite entertaining, but absolutely unconstructive
For instance a nazi is one who doesn't believe other nations have the right to exist and cherish their own culture which they believe to be different from other cultures and unique to a specific group and territory. Putin and his clique seem to fit very well this description. A nazi is also someone who starts a war of destruction and promises he will bring to oblivion that group, of which he believes is inferior to his own group and simply deserves to perish. Again, Putin and his clique fit pretty well all the nazi and fascism definitions.
Seriously now, are we still on the old accusations of fascism coming from Russia? Because it's just ridiculous and it's rich coming from their side. Not only since the invasion of Ukraine.
This war is about other things and you probably know it very well. Power. Greed. And many other things.

You better wish this war to be over and sooner than later, not to insist on the alleged fascism of a country which is being systematically destroyed as we speak.

Last edited by greenmount; 15.05.2022 at 10:07.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #6425  
Old 15.05.2022, 12:10
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,197
Groaned at 348 Times in 301 Posts
Thanked 25,602 Times in 10,425 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

In August 2013, Putin said to David Cameron (while Cameron was try to get Putin to join with the UK and US in condemn the use of Sarin in Syria - only to be let down by Ed Milliband and Obama).

Quote:
Let me tell you plainly: It is easy to start a war. That is most disgusting thing to do. The most noble thing is to stop a war — it’s better if it is done by peaceful means.
Lenin said: “You probe with bayonets — if you encounter mush, proceed; if you encounter steel, withdraw” have been quoted many times. They describe Putin’s thinking perfectly. In August 2013 he probed the West with a bayonet and encountered mush, not steel.

The civil war in Syria, orchestrated by Putin, became bloodier; in 2014 he invaded Crimea; this February, it was Ukraine.

(Taken from this article in The Times - paywalled - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...-war-hq537zrlb
__________________
Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #6426  
Old 15.05.2022, 13:22
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: transcended.
Posts: 180
Groaned at 231 Times in 121 Posts
Thanked 857 Times in 366 Posts
vushka is considered unworthyvushka is considered unworthyvushka is considered unworthy
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

inconvenient facts = posts deleted for "trolling"
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank vushka for this useful post:
The following 3 users groan at vushka for this post:
  #6427  
Old 15.05.2022, 13:50
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 4,089
Groaned at 399 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 8,789 Times in 3,757 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
inconvenient facts = posts deleted for "trolling"
In the free world of Twitter, Russia's foreign ministry shares your sharp analogy. Also on Twitter, some right wing nutjobs allege that the Buffalo shooting was an FBI false flag operation.

https://twitter.com/Dpol_un/status/1...Dm_-NF4EQ&s=19
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #6428  
Old 15.05.2022, 14:05
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,378
Groaned at 721 Times in 605 Posts
Thanked 24,083 Times in 12,610 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
In the free world of Twitter, Russia's foreign ministry shares your sharp analogy. Also on Twitter, some right wing nutjobs allege that the Buffalo shooting was an FBI false flag operation.

https://twitter.com/Dpol_un/status/1...Dm_-NF4EQ&s=19
That activity from the right wing nutjobs is a problem on its own, the bigger problem is the people who believe such rubbish and then spread it.
Reply With Quote
  #6429  
Old 15.05.2022, 14:25
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,378
Groaned at 721 Times in 605 Posts
Thanked 24,083 Times in 12,610 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

The law of unintended consequences strikes again.

People here supported the Russian claim that they struck Ukraine to hinder NATO's eastward progression.
As the result, today Finland formally applies for Nato membership so doubling the length of NATO's eastern land border with Russia.

Michael Caine: 'Not a lot of people know that' when Kazakstahn joins NATO then Russia's border with NATO would be five times longer.
Reply With Quote
  #6430  
Old 15.05.2022, 16:38
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 4,089
Groaned at 399 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 8,789 Times in 3,757 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Ukraine Is in Worse Shape than You Think

https://time.com/6176748/ukraine-war-economy/
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #6431  
Old 15.05.2022, 17:17
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,378
Groaned at 721 Times in 605 Posts
Thanked 24,083 Times in 12,610 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
i mean the west has made it pretty clear that they're willing to finance and equip ukrainians to fight but they're not willing to fight themselves. so i don't think what he said is very fringe or ridiculous at all.
For the nth time

The "West" gave Ukraine security guarantees when they gave up their nuclear weapons.
Reply With Quote
  #6432  
Old 15.05.2022, 17:40
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,197
Groaned at 348 Times in 301 Posts
Thanked 25,602 Times in 10,425 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
For the nth time

The "West" gave Ukraine security guarantees when they gave up their nuclear weapons.
And Russia guaranteed sovereignty.

At least we're keeping to our side of the bargain. In the meantime Finland has formally requested NATO membership. Russia says 'that's a mistake'.

Er no. Invading Ukraine, that was a mistake.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #6433  
Old 15.05.2022, 17:42
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,660
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,535 Times in 4,123 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Ukraine Is in Worse Shape than You Think

https://time.com/6176748/ukraine-war-economy/
Economically Ukraine was a basket case (I think I mentioned this a few hundred pages ago) and perhaps this war will turn out to be the best thing to happen to Ukraine ever. Think about it, you can draw parallels to Post war Germany, everything in ruins, a "Stunde Null" situation, then you get massive foreign investment into new infrastructure, new factories, a new society. The country was remodeled to the western ideology and was built up to be a buffer between "the west" and a belligerent Russia.
Losing WW2 was the best thing that could happen to Germany because they did great afterwards, so why can´t the same thing apply to Ukraine?
__________________
Back in Bavaria, god´s own belly button.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at slammer for this post:
  #6434  
Old 15.05.2022, 18:54
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 4,089
Groaned at 399 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 8,789 Times in 3,757 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Economically Ukraine was a basket case (I think I mentioned this a few hundred pages ago) and perhaps this war will turn out to be the best thing to happen to Ukraine ever. Think about it, you can draw parallels to Post war Germany, everything in ruins, a "Stunde Null" situation, then you get massive foreign investment into new infrastructure, new factories, a new society. The country was remodeled to the western ideology and was built up to be a buffer between "the west" and a belligerent Russia.
Losing WW2 was the best thing that could happen to Germany because they did great afterwards, so why can´t the same thing apply to Ukraine?
Maybe. But careful with the Germany parallels. Otherwise some twisted minds might even think Ukraine needs to be de-nazified.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #6435  
Old 15.05.2022, 19:03
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,660
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,535 Times in 4,123 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Maybe. But careful with the Germany parallels. Otherwise some twisted minds might even think Ukraine needs to be de-nazified.
At that point Germany was de-nazified... They all joined the CSU.
Reply With Quote
  #6436  
Old 16.05.2022, 08:53
TinyK's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Left bank of Lake Zurich
Posts: 1,444
Groaned at 66 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,577 Times in 797 Posts
TinyK has a reputation beyond reputeTinyK has a reputation beyond reputeTinyK has a reputation beyond reputeTinyK has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Losing WW2 was the best thing that could happen to Germany because they did great afterwards, so why can´t the same thing apply to Ukraine?
Compare Eastern and Western Germany and you understand why loosing a war to Russia is a bad thing.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank TinyK for this useful post:
  #6437  
Old 16.05.2022, 09:39
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 14,194
Groaned at 1,439 Times in 952 Posts
Thanked 21,498 Times in 8,207 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
perhaps this war will turn out to be the best thing to happen to Ukraine ever.

Losing WW2 was the best thing that could happen to Germany because they did great afterwards, so why can´t the same thing apply to Ukraine?
The mind boggles at the sheer level of inane and ignorant garbage that spews forth from your fevered mind to your keyboard and then onto our long-suffering screens. How anyone can think thousands of people being killed, major cities being razed and millions of people being turned into refugees as "the best thing ever to happen to a country" can imo only described as somewhat unhinged and delusional.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
  #6438  
Old 16.05.2022, 09:58
MidfieldGeneral's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,562
Groaned at 105 Times in 98 Posts
Thanked 3,256 Times in 1,324 Posts
MidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond reputeMidfieldGeneral has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
The mind boggles at the sheer level of inane and ignorant garbage that spews forth from your fevered mind to your keyboard and then onto our long-suffering screens. How anyone can think thousands of people being killed, major cities being razed and millions of people being turned into refugees as "the best thing ever to happen to a country" can imo only described as somewhat unhinged and delusional.
fully agreed. not just for Ukraine but for Germany as well at the time
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MidfieldGeneral for this useful post:
  #6439  
Old 16.05.2022, 10:09
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,160
Groaned at 80 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 4,435 Times in 2,390 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Well, Germany managed to get almost all of its debt wiped out (and nullified all pre-war loans both internal and external), didn't have to pay reparations (except the money we wire to Israel of course), lost a lot of people drawing a pension fund and could thus start from a clean slate.


Of course, it all came with a price-tag. But you have to wonder what some politicians these days would be willing to do if they could start again with such a clean slate?
Reply With Quote
  #6440  
Old 16.05.2022, 10:20
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 2,210
Groaned at 1,037 Times in 582 Posts
Thanked 5,486 Times in 2,457 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Economically Ukraine was a basket case (I think I mentioned this a few hundred pages ago) and perhaps this war will turn out to be the best thing to happen to Ukraine ever. Think about it, you can draw parallels to Post war Germany, everything in ruins, a "Stunde Null" situation, then you get massive foreign investment into new infrastructure, new factories, a new society. The country was remodeled to the western ideology and was built up to be a buffer between "the west" and a belligerent Russia.
Losing WW2 was the best thing that could happen to Germany because they did great afterwards, so why can´t the same thing apply to Ukraine?
I don't believe any comparisons can be drawn between Ukraine and post war Germany. Germany finished the second world war with the highest levels of education in the world. Remarkably, despite the allied bombing campaign, close to 95% of industry was still in tact. Germany had little war debt, Marshall aid was rolling in and there was currency reform that was introduced in a way that it wiped out people's saving but preserved business capital. One couldn't ask for a more recovery/business friendly environment.

Compare that to Ukraine, which is (comparatively) low educated, low developed country, which also had the unattractive tag of being one of the most corrupt countries in Europe.
__________________
Thou/Thee
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
crimea, russia, ukraine




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jewish Refugees in Switzerland during World War II zanskar International affairs/politics 48 16.06.2010 15:58
Book about Switzerland in the second world war [recommendation?] telandy Other/general 14 18.06.2007 20:15


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0