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  #6481  
Old 17.05.2022, 19:27
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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seems like the new "independent" nation won't be including mariupol.
a) Give it time
b) Thanks to Azov, Russia won't be adding Zaporizhzhya to their list of occupied territories anytime soon.

(Vushka uses "independent", because he's trying to seed the idea that Ukraine will just be a puppet regime controlled by the USA - so that people with a intellect slightly less than a concussed bee, won't notice that certain "independent" countries are puppet regimes controlled by Russia.)

When the prisoners are exchanged, how will Putin be able to explain the "denazification" includes not destroying the Nazis, like he claimed the operation was about?
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  #6482  
Old 17.05.2022, 19:52
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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There's no way to kick anybody out of Nato against their will.

As for Finland and Sweden joining: Turkey has a problem with their support for members of the terrorist organisation called PKK. The US, the EU, and Turkey have the same position in that.

But hey, never let a good opportunity to smear an entire nation pass you by. Especially if it's based on nothing but prejudice.
I don't know much about the PKK, but it sounds strange that Sweden and Finland would have a much different position on it than the EU which they are members of.
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  #6483  
Old 17.05.2022, 20:06
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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When the prisoners are exchanged, how will Putin be able to explain the "denazification" includes not destroying the Nazis, like he claimed the operation was about?
hopefully the russians will treat the ukrainians fairly and professionally.
as for the nazis those who committed war crimes im not so sure they will be exchanged anytime soon.
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  #6484  
Old 17.05.2022, 20:08
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I don't know much about the PKK, but it sounds strange that Sweden and Finland would have a much different position on it than the EU which they are members of.
You'll have to take that up with the three or them.

While you're at it, perhaps also convince Hungary to join the EU sanctions. It sounds strange that they refuse to keep Russian oil out, maybe you can make make Ordoban change his mind.
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  #6485  
Old 17.05.2022, 20:10
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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hopefully the russians will treat the ukrainians fairly and professionally.
as for the nazis those who committed war crimes im not so sure they will be exchanged anytime soon.
That's a lot of hope. Half Germany is still scarred of being treated fairly and professionally during Russian occupation.
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  #6486  
Old 17.05.2022, 20:12
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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What???

Apparently anything goes for you in the fight for empathy, even an insinuation like that. Ironically it is itself completely devoid of empathy. Talk about taking down your own argument.
Sorry if you took it personally, but I didn't say it's your opinion. I showed what extremes discussion about relativism can reach. Maybe I was also too laconic.

And I'm not talking about empathy now. Don't know if you took part in the earlier discussion about Nazism.
We went so deep about what is the definition of Nazism, who is, who is not Nazi nowadays, that it really led nowhere.

Why I said we're are going in circles is because I believe we shouldn't focus on calling something Nazi or proxy war, but focus on deeds. Sadly when I tried to put focus on deeds, relativism exploded.
But some deeds are always straightforwardly wrong in my view. That's why I said we're going in circles when you wrote "feelings are not arguments". Generally in itself that is true, but for some deeds independently from how you or I feel, they will be always objectively wrong.
Example: despite the atrocious deeds done by Russian army, Ukrainians try to restrain from revenge on Russian PoWs.

Last edited by Excad; 17.05.2022 at 20:48.
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  #6487  
Old 17.05.2022, 20:14
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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You'll have to take that up with the three or them.

While you're at it, perhaps also convince Hungary to join the EU sanctions. It sounds strange that they refuse to keep Russian oil out, maybe you can make make Ordoban change his mind.
I will speak to him later tonight. Will request total compliance or threaten denazification. His head will spin.
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  #6488  
Old 17.05.2022, 20:19
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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hopefully the russians will treat the ukrainians fairly and professionally.
as for the nazis those who committed war crimes im not so sure they will be exchanged anytime soon.
I am sure that Russia will surrender those nazis who committed war crimes to the forces of law and order.
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  #6489  
Old 17.05.2022, 21:05
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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And I'm not talking about empathy now.
That's part of the problem, either it's always relevant or not.
When you invoke feelings as an argument you're leaving the realm of rational discourse. Usually that's done to silence the other, because a continued disagreement usually results in immediate moral smears and damnation.

Which is what you just tried repeatedly.

Besides, nazi wasn't mentioned once on the previous 40-post page. Maybe look for a better pretext next time.
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  #6490  
Old 17.05.2022, 21:21
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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You'll have to take that up with the three or them.

While you're at it, perhaps also convince Hungary to join the EU sanctions. It sounds strange that they refuse to keep Russian oil out, maybe you can make make Ordoban change his mind.
There was a report on the news just yesterday on the question why is Hungary not joining sanctions and it was explained that unlike most EU countries who can switch, albeit frantically and under extreme pressure, Hungary´s infrastructure is totally dependent on Russia, they are however suggesting that by the end of the year the country could wean it´s self of Russian energy.
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  #6491  
Old 17.05.2022, 22:19
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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There was a report on the news just yesterday on the question why is Hungary not joining sanctions and it was explained that unlike most EU countries who can switch, albeit frantically and under extreme pressure, Hungary´s infrastructure is totally dependent on Russia, they are however suggesting that by the end of the year the country could wean it´s self of Russian energy.
Does that make sense? I mean, isn't Orban said to be snuggling up to Putin (since long before the war)? So it's more likely he's playing for time?

Supplies-wise Poland and the Baltics are probably in a similar position (except for the LNG terminals Poland is building), yet they seem to react in pretty much the opposite way.

Ukraine will suffer massively in the coming winters (Biden won't be able to weaken Russia sufficiently in a few months' time).

-------------------------------------

Ukraine needs a much bigger army. First to rotate through the frontline troops and let them recuperate, and second to retake the occupied territorries. Assuming the standard 5:1 ratio when attacking, we're talking about an army in the order of one million soldiers. And that assumes no increase in numbers on the Russian side.

This war has only just begun.
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  #6492  
Old 17.05.2022, 22:19
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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as for the nazis those who committed war crimes im not so sure they will be exchanged anytime soon.
I'm sure the Ukrainians will ensure they are called to answer for there crimes, and follow due process.
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  #6493  
Old 17.05.2022, 22:24
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Ukraine needs a much bigger army. Not just to retake the occupied territorries, but also to rotate through the frontline troops and let them recuperate. Assuming the usual 5:1 requirement when attacking, we're talking about an army in the order of one million soldiers.
Mikhail Khodarenok on Sixty Minutes on Russian State television.

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In surprisingly frank comments which openly criticised the Kremlin’s official propaganda narratives, Khodarenok said Russia’s population had been fed lies about a lack of morale and psychological breakdowns among Ukrainian ranks and rejected claims that their mood was “close to crisis”.

“To put it mildly, this is not true,” he said, adding that Ukraine would soon have mobilised more than a million soldiers who will be trained and be ready to “spill blood for their motherland”.

He argued that despite most being conscripted, they are “ready to fight” to defend their country, which ultimately determines “victory on the battlefield”. He added: “The main thing in our business is have a sense of military-political realism: if you go beyond that then the reality of history will hit you so hard that you will not know what hit you.”
Comment from the BBC.
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In recent weeks, critical views have appeared on television here. In March, on another popular TV talk show, a Russian filmmaker told the presenter: "The war in Ukraine paints a frightening picture, it has a very oppressive influence on our society."

So what happened on 60 Minutes? Was this a spontaneous, unprompted and unexpected wake-up call on Ukraine that slipped through the net?

Or was it a pre-planned burst of reality in order to prepare the Russian public for negative news on the progress of the "special military operation"?
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  #6494  
Old 17.05.2022, 22:54
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Comment from the BBC.
Wouldn't a preplanned statement probably have involved the mentioning of nazis? (not a dig at Excad)
Putin's been quite vocal about the official reasoning.
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  #6495  
Old 18.05.2022, 06:46
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Rather a planned sobering up move. No way he gets to speak there without permission from someone further up (does not mean Putin). It also feels like the nuclear fantasies have cooled off recently, or at least less reporting about it.
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  #6496  
Old 18.05.2022, 07:03
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Does that make sense? I mean, isn't Orban said to be snuggling up to Putin (since long before the war)? So it's more likely he's playing for time?

Supplies-wise Poland and the Baltics are probably in a similar position (except for the LNG terminals Poland is building), yet they seem to react in pretty much the opposite way.

Ukraine will suffer massively in the coming winters (Biden won't be able to weaken Russia sufficiently in a few months' time).

-------------------------------------

Ukraine needs a much bigger army. First to rotate through the frontline troops and let them recuperate, and second to retake the occupied territorries. Assuming the standard 5:1 ratio when attacking, we're talking about an army in the order of one million soldiers. And that assumes no increase in numbers on the Russian side.

This war has only just begun.
Could be the better explanation. Orban buying time in the hope it blows over and things get back to "normal."
Germany recently told the greenies and nabu not to oppose any LNG terminal building on the west coast. Nabu however has said that they will oppose any construction in the fragile Watt.
They need the terminals by autumn, but are not even in the planning stage, so I´m going with a "ain´t gonna happen"
ON more serious news, talking about the bigger picture, there will be world wide shortages of wheat and corn with prices rising sky high in the rest of the world with crops becoming worthless and burnt or plowed under due to the blockade of Ukrainian ports and the lack of transport.
Good time to be starting a diet.
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  #6497  
Old 18.05.2022, 07:41
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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a) Give it time
b) Thanks to Azov, Russia won't be adding Zaporizhzhya to their list of occupied territories anytime soon.
well it was said they would fight until the end and they wouldn't surrender. seems that didn't work out for them.
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  #6498  
Old 18.05.2022, 08:25
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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well it was said they would fight until the end and they wouldn't surrender. seems that didn't work out for them.
Cool, you can book this as the first real Russian victory in this operation then.
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  #6499  
Old 18.05.2022, 09:21
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Cool, you can book this as the first real Russian victory in this operation then.
The first commonly admitted, yes
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  #6500  
Old 18.05.2022, 09:40
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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ON more serious news, talking about the bigger picture, there will be world wide shortages of wheat and corn with prices rising sky high in the rest of the world with crops becoming worthless and burnt or plowed under due to the blockade of Ukrainian ports and the lack of transport.
Good time to be starting a diet.
Doesn't matter. On 60 years no one will care and only children will read this on textbooks. Relax.
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