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  #6681  
Old 27.05.2022, 11:15
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Well, 3 months into the war...



https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...nflict-updates

Of course the accuracy of maps at the scale of km is uncertain. However, at some point Kvyv was circled, today is not. At some point the North East of Ukraine was occupied, today it is not.

In contrast, there's a continuous occupied zone easier for Russia to defend. The new potential borderline is fought everyday.
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  #6682  
Old 27.05.2022, 15:01
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

https://www.zerohedge.com/military/w...e-forces-front


Who knew? Truth is the first casualty in a war.
Always was, always will be.

As I didn't bother reading the WaPo article (paywalled), I assume the ZH article in itself is a bit biased and the situation is not that bad.

So, who'll cave first? Putin or the people in DC feeding Biden's teleprompter?
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Old 27.05.2022, 17:27
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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So, who'll cave first? Putin or the people in DC feeding Biden's teleprompter?
as long as its only ukrainians and their country being destroyed i doubt the US/west will be in any hurry to stop the war.

Last edited by vushka; 27.05.2022 at 17:46.
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  #6684  
Old 27.05.2022, 17:51
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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https://www.zerohedge.com/military/w...e-forces-front

Who knew? Truth is the first casualty in a war.
Always was, always will be.

As I didn't bother reading the WaPo article (paywalled), I assume the ZH article in itself is a bit biased and the situation is not that bad.

So, who'll cave first? Putin or the people in DC feeding Biden's teleprompter?
When you have a Ukrainian army with over 100,000 people then you will have a whole range of different experiences, opinions, and views from the soldiers involved so enabling all sorts of articles to be written either praising or damning depending on which of the available information is selected.

The only real truth we have is that the Ukrainian army has held off the Russian invasion for over three months despite the Western military assessments of collapse in a few days so they must be doing something right. Even in the extremely unlikely event of the Ukrainian army completely collapsing this evening they will have done extraordinarily well.
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  #6685  
Old 27.05.2022, 18:30
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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When you have a Ukrainian army with over 100,000 people then you will have a whole range of different experiences, opinions, and views from the soldiers involved so enabling all sorts of articles to be written either praising or damning depending on which of the available information is selected.

The only real truth we have is that the Ukrainian army has held off the Russian invasion for over three months despite the Western military assessments of collapse in a few days so they must be doing something right. Even in the extremely unlikely event of the Ukrainian army completely collapsing this evening they will have done extraordinarily well.

That is true - however, if it is true that the US has transferred the equivalent of half the GDP of Ukraine already in some form of military aid to the region, you really have to ask at what point one isn't de-facto at war with Russia already.
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  #6686  
Old 27.05.2022, 20:17
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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https://www.zerohedge.com/military/w...e-forces-front

Who knew? Truth is the first casualty in a war.
The report thenpivots to the reality of an undertrained, poorly commanded and equipped, rag-tag force of mostly volunteers in the Eastwho find themselves increasingly surrounded by the numerically superior Russian military which has penetrated almost the entire Donbas region

“We are being sent to certain death,”said a volunteer, reading from a prepared script, adding that a similar video was filmed by members of the 115th Brigade 1st Battalion.“We are not alone like this, we are many.”


oof.
sounds like they're not all so keen on fighting.
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  #6687  
Old 27.05.2022, 20:19
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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as long as its only ukrainians and their country being destroyed i doubt the US/west will be in any hurry to stop the war.
Said it before, the US and the UK want to cream Russia and to do that they will keep the war going as long as possible now that they have the Ukraine as a near perfect vector.
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Old 27.05.2022, 20:23
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The report thenpivots to the reality of an undertrained, poorly commanded and equipped, rag-tag force of mostly volunteers in the Eastwho find themselves increasingly surrounded by the numerically superior Russian military which has penetrated almost the entire Donbas region

“We are being sent to certain death,”said a volunteer, reading from a prepared script, adding that a similar video was filmed by members of the 115th Brigade 1st Battalion.“We are not alone like this, we are many.”


oof.
sounds like they're not all so keen on fighting.
Depends on who wrote the prepared script
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  #6689  
Old 27.05.2022, 20:36
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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as long as its only ukrainians and their country being destroyed i doubt the US/west will be in any hurry to stop the war.
The question being though if that's the measure.

I would say that's up to the Ukranians, primarily by those who risk their lives defending it, also by whoever else has remained in the country.
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Said it before, the US and the UK want to cream Russia and to do that they will keep the war going as long as possible now that they have the Ukraine as a near perfect vector.
Of course, Biden has said so pretty much from the beginning. After outmanoeuvring Putin in a brilliant strategic move, aka by doing nothing while Putin decided to make himself and the entire country an international pariah.
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Old 27.05.2022, 20:44
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The question being though if that's the measure.

I would say that's up to the Ukranians, predominantly those who risk their lives defending it plus whoever else has remained in the country.

Of course, Biden has said so pretty much from the beginning. After outmanoeuvring Putin in a brilliant strategic move, aka by doing nothing while Putin decided to make himself and the entire country an international pariah.
Even if Putin laminates the entire Ukraine, he has lost.
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  #6691  
Old 27.05.2022, 21:36
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Even if Putin laminates the entire Ukraine, he has lost.
That's to be seen, Russia's resources will be welcome elsewhere.
Either way it's not he who pays the price.

I wonder what he has in mind for the destroyed cities and (presumably) mostly depopulated Donbas. The land alone is worthless if it doesn't get cultivated. Does he intend to repopulate them Stalin-style, perhaps even by deporting hundredthousands or even millions? But Russia's population is already shrinking, so there won't be enough young folks already, without the war and the deaths and exodus it causes.
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  #6692  
Old 27.05.2022, 22:09
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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https://www.zerohedge.com/military/w...e-forces-front


Who knew? Truth is the first casualty in a war.
Always was, always will be.

As I didn't bother reading the WaPo article (paywalled), I assume the ZH article in itself is a bit biased and the situation is not that bad.

So, who'll cave first? Putin or the people in DC feeding Biden's teleprompter?
Googling around about older weapons it is claimed the Russian forces are arming some of their conscripts with Mosin-Nagant rifles from the 1800s.

It is also claimed the Ukrainians are using the M1910 Maxim machine gun, which was first introduced into service in 1910.
It has a water cooled barrel so capable of sustained fire for longer than modern machine guns.
My father was in charge of a detachment of these in the first World War, he said they were very heavy, and despite being mounted on wheels were very difficult to move around, they tried to "borrow" animals from local farmers to pull them. He claimed if they ran out of water they would have to fill the barrels with p#ss.
I did have some fotos of the guns but lost them years ago.

Both of these weapons use the 7.62×54mm cartridge which is still manufactured, also popular for sniper rifles.
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  #6693  
Old 28.05.2022, 10:24
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Googling around about older weapons it is claimed the Russian forces are arming some of their conscripts with Mosin-Nagant rifles from the 1800s.

It is also claimed the Ukrainians are using the M1910 Maxim machine gun, which was first introduced into service in 1910.
It has a water cooled barrel so capable of sustained fire for longer than modern machine guns.
My father was in charge of a detachment of these in the first World War, he said they were very heavy, and despite being mounted on wheels were very difficult to move around, they tried to "borrow" animals from local farmers to pull them. He claimed if they ran out of water they would have to fill the barrels with p#ss.
I did have some fotos of the guns but lost them years ago.

Both of these weapons use the 7.62×54mm cartridge which is still manufactured, also popular for sniper rifles.
Nothing wrong with the venerable 1910 Maxim. Ukraine has 35.000 Maxims on strength and they are used by both the Separatists and the Ukrainian army, both sides also use the 1891 Mosin-Nagant and they will make you just as dead as modern weapons do.
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  #6694  
Old 28.05.2022, 11:09
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The only real truth we have is that the Ukrainian army has held off the Russian invasion for over three months despite the Western military assessments of collapse in a few days so they must be doing something right. Even in the extremely unlikely event of the Ukrainian army completely collapsing this evening they will have done extraordinarily well.
don't worry, no matter what happens the propaganda machine will spin it into a win for the west
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  #6695  
Old 28.05.2022, 14:14
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Nothing wrong with the venerable 1910 Maxim. Ukraine has 35.000 Maxims on strength and they are used by both the Separatists and the Ukrainian army, both sides also use the 1891 Mosin-Nagant and they will make you just as dead as modern weapons do.
Imagine dying by a weapon from the 19th century, in a war in the 21st century.

That would be very disappointing.
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Old 28.05.2022, 14:25
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Nothing wrong with the venerable 1910 Maxim. Ukraine has 35.000 Maxims on strength and they are used by both the Separatists and the Ukrainian army, both sides also use the 1891 Mosin-Nagant and they will make you just as dead as modern weapons do.
A knife will also make you dead. But it's a matter of effectiveness. Mosin is a bolt-action rifle with 5 bullets the magazine. It could make sense as sniper rifle, but as an assault rifle it sucks big time.
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Old 28.05.2022, 14:39
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Imagine dying by a weapon from the 19th century, in a war in the 21st century.

That would be very disappointing.
Like being flattened by a 1997 Honda Accord.
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Old 29.05.2022, 10:11
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Good and long read on the state of Russia's media

----

Inside Putin’s Propaganda Machine

Current and former employees describe Russian state television as an army, one with a few generals and many foot soldiers who never question their orders.

By Masha Gessen

May 18, 2022


https://www.newyorker.com/news/annal...al-type=earned
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Old 29.05.2022, 10:32
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Good and long read on the state of Russia's media
Excellent article indeed, thanks.

"...Solovyov quoted was also from Putin in 2018: “If they start a nuclear war, we will respond. But we, being righteous people, will go straight to Heaven, while they will just croak.

In other words, Russia is starting to resemble the Iranian theocracy and it seems this is part of the mass communication strategy: turn this into a partly religious battle which should justify the suffering and give people a fake sense of purpose. When people go through pain, they need to have a sense of purpose as meaningless pain could lead to too much internal strife and potentially protests. Russia is no longer a 20th century state, it's moving quickly to the 16th century. Sad and dangerous at the same time.
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Old 29.05.2022, 11:18
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

"Support for Kyiv’s continued defiance among some west European allies appears to be slipping."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-turn-the-tide

looks like some of the west are already getting ready to discard ukraine.
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