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31.05.2022, 14:54
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | It’s not “mothers against bombs” but Grandmothers against bombs. | | | | | Thanks for showing me the true meaning of MOAB | Quote: | |  | | | i believe its the correct answer in a western liberal democracy.
pulling out a phone and recording it for social media is probably also acceptable these days. | | | | | That would be the correct reaction if an elderly man got beaten up.
An elderly woman however is an entirely different thing, that would easily justify killing the attacker.
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31.05.2022, 15:25
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Just as an aside the many restored UK Royal Observer Corps, nuclear monitoring posts ( called ROC Posts ) from the Cold War, have been getting renewed interest, as a poignant reminder of the grim consequences if the Cold War ever turned hot. Here's a video tour of one of the ROC Posts near Broadway tower in Worcestershire. | 
31.05.2022, 23:21
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Another Tom Nichols podcast - this time much more coherent - on US / Soviet and Russian general military and nuclear history and structural problems. And how this links to today's issues. Very useful background. https://open.spotify.com/episode/3vs...urce=copy-link
Last edited by komsomolez; 31.05.2022 at 23:37.
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01.06.2022, 13:42
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Looks like Putin will soon demonstrate the law of unintended consequences again.
" A referendum today will determine whether Denmark maintains its nearly three-decade old opt-out from EU defense policy.
The opt-out keeps the Scandinavian nation of nearly 6 million from taking an active part in EU defense policy and missions."
"Latest polls suggest as many as 44% of Danes are in favour of scrapping the defence reservation and 28% opposed."
And back to Ukraine;
"US President Joe Biden announced yesterday a new package of rocket artillery systems to be sent to Ukraine.
Senior administration officials said the rocket systems would have the capability to launch rockets as far as 80 kilometers, far less than the long range weaponry Zelensky has asked for, but far greater than anything Ukraine has been sent to date."
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01.06.2022, 13:50
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Looks like Putin will soon demonstrate the law of unintended consequences again.
"A referendum today will determine whether Denmark maintains its nearly three-decade old opt-out from EU defense policy.
The opt-out keeps the Scandinavian nation of nearly 6 million from taking an active part in EU defense policy and missions."
"Latest polls suggest as many as 44% of Danes are in favour of scrapping the defence reservation and 28% opposed." | | | | | Denmark is in NATO, so this would be more of a political statement than actually changing anything militarily. | Quote: | |  | | | And back to Ukraine;
"US President Joe Biden announced yesterday a new package of rocket artillery systems to be sent to Ukraine.
Senior administration officials said the rocket systems would have the capability to launch rockets as far as 80 kilometers, far less than the long range weaponry Zelensky has asked for, but far greater than anything Ukraine has been sent to date." | | | | | And probably better than anything the Russians have.
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01.06.2022, 14:03
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Denmark is in NATO, so this would be more of a political statement than actually changing anything militarily. | | | | | The link I posted discusses this point, for example, "Denmark has used its defence opt-out 235 times over 28 years".
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01.06.2022, 22:21
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
According to the exit polls Denmark voted overwhelmingly to scrap its opt-out from EU security and defense policy in a referendum triggered by Russia’s war in Ukraine.
Around 69 percent voted in favor of the move while 31 percent were opposed, according to an exit poll published by public broadcaster DR after voting closed on Wednesday evening.
Another exit poll published by broadcaster TV2 found that more than 67 percent of Danes voted in favor while 33 percent were against.
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02.06.2022, 09:06
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
interesting line from a nyt article regarding the "david and goliath" battle that is often alluded to in the west: Since 2018, Ukraine has received U.S.-built Javelin antitank missiles, Czech artillery and Turkish Bayraktar drones and other NATO-interoperable weaponry. The United States and Canada have lately sent up-to-date British-designed M777 howitzers that fire GPS-guided Excalibur shells. President Biden just signed into law a $40 billion military aid package.
In this light, mockery of Russia’s battlefield performance is misplaced. Russia is not being stymied by a plucky agricultural country a third its size; it is holding its own, at least for now, against NATO’s advanced economic, cyber and battlefield weapons. | 
02.06.2022, 09:15
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | interesting line from a nyt article regarding the "david and goliath" battle that is often alluded to in the west: Since 2018, Ukraine has received U.S.-built Javelin antitank missiles, Czech artillery and Turkish Bayraktar drones and other NATO-interoperable weaponry. The United States and Canada have lately sent up-to-date British-designed M777 howitzers that fire GPS-guided Excalibur shells. President Biden just signed into law a $40 billion military aid package.
In this light, mockery of Russia’s battlefield performance is misplaced. Russia is not being stymied by a plucky agricultural country a third its size; it is holding its own, at least for now, against NATO’s advanced economic, cyber and battlefield weapons. | | | | | So Russia was stupid to invade a better equipped country.
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02.06.2022, 09:53
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Interesting perspective on how the West misinterprets Russia and in consequence that this war might go on forever.
---- What The West (Still) Gets Wrong About Putin
Asking whether to appease or not appease him is completely beside the point.
By Tatiana Stanovaya, a nonresident scholar at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/06/01...isconceptions/ | This user would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post: | | 
02.06.2022, 10:13
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Interesting perspective on how the West misinterprets Russia and in consequence that this war might go on forever.
---- What The West (Still) Gets Wrong About Putin
Asking whether to appease or not appease him is completely beside the point.
By Tatiana Stanovaya, a nonresident scholar at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/06/01...isconceptions/ | | | | | Interesting article until the "subscribe or else" axe fell.
The heavy artillery (FH70s, M777s) promised by the West is now slowly trickling in and seems to be making a difference in the areas where it is used, so hopefully, it will not be a forever war or at worst pushed back to the Eastern regions where the war has been raging for eight years.
Interesting German offer to supply the IRIS-T SL systems but they are only forecast to arrive towards the year end and only a handful are manufactured each year so how many cities they will protect is not known.
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02.06.2022, 10:25
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Interesting perspective on how the West misinterprets Russia and in consequence that this war might go on forever.
---- What The West (Still) Gets Wrong About Putin
Asking whether to appease or not appease him is completely beside the point.
By Tatiana Stanovaya, a nonresident scholar at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/06/01...isconceptions/ | | | | | Discussion about assumption #1 in the article: | Quote: |  | | | There is no need for major territorial gains nor taking Kyiv, Ukraine’s capital (even if he dreamt about it in the beginning). Even the annexation of the Luhansk and Donetsk regions, which Moscow sees as only a matter of time, is an auxiliary, local goal to make Ukraine pay for incorrect, pro-Western geopolitical choices over the last two decades. In Putin’s eyes, he is not losing this war. In fact, he likely believes he is winning—and he is happy to wait until Ukraine concedes that Russia is here forever. | | | | | Russian news agency: Putin is not after territorial gains. It's the people's free choice to run to sit in the lap of a benevolent father | Quote: |  | | | Kherson Region’s authorities to make every effort to join Russia, official says.
SIMFEROPOL, June 1. /TASS/. The Kherson Region’s authorities are determined to make every effort to join the Russian Federation, deputy head of the regional military-civilian administration Kirill Stremousov told TASS on Wednesday. | | | | | https://tass.com/politics/1459163 | 
02.06.2022, 10:58
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Interesting article until the "subscribe or else" axe fell. | | | | | I could just close the pop up and the article was still accessible. Whatever, here it is:
-------------
What The West (Still) Gets Wrong About Putin
Asking whether to appease or not appease him is completely beside the point.
By Tatiana Stanovaya, a nonresident scholar at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
JUNE 1, 2022, 3:16 PM
One of the reasons it’s so difficult to understand Russian intentions—and what is at stake in the Ukraine war—is the significant divergence between how external observers see events and how they are viewed from the Kremlin. Things that appear obvious to some, such as Russia’s incapacity to achieve a military victory, are perceived completely differently in Moscow. The fact is that most of today’s discussions over how to help Ukraine win on the battlefield, coerce Kyiv into concessions, or allow Russian President Vladimir Putin to save face have little in common with reality.
Here I will debunk five common assumptions about how Putin sees this war. The West needs to look at the situation differently if it wants to be more effective in its approach and decrease the risks of escalation.
Assumption 1: Putin knows he is losing.
This stems from the mistaken idea that Russia’s main goal is to seize control of large parts of Ukraine—and therefore, when the Russian military performs badly, fails to advance, or even retreats, that this amounts to failure. However, Putin’s main goals in this war have never been to acquire pieces of territory; rather, he wants to destroy Ukraine in what he calls an “anti-Russia” project and stop the West from using Ukrainian territory as a bridgehead for anti-Russian geopolitical activities. As a result, Russia does not see itself as failing. Ukraine will not join NATO nor be able to exist peacefully without considering Russian demands on Russification (or “denazification” in Russian propaganda-speak) and “de-NATOfication” (known as “demilitarization” in Russian propaganda terms)—meaning a halt to any military cooperation with NATO. To follow through on these goals, Russia needs to sustain its military presence on Ukrainian territory and keep attacking Ukrainian infrastructure. There is no need for major territorial gains nor taking Kyiv, Ukraine’s capital (even if he dreamt about it in the beginning). Even the annexation of the Luhansk and Donetsk regions, which Moscow sees as only a matter of time, is an auxiliary, local goal to make Ukraine pay for incorrect, pro-Western geopolitical choices over the last two decades. In Putin’s eyes, he is not losing this war. In fact, he likely believes he is winning—and he is happy to wait until Ukraine concedes that Russia is here forever.
Assumption 2: The West should find a way to help Putin save face, thus decreasing the risks of further, possibly nuclear, escalation.
Imagine a situation where Ukraine accepts most of Russia’s demands: It recognizes Crimea as Russian and the Donbas as independent, commits to a slimmed-down army, and promises to never join NATO. Will that end the conflict? Even if, to many, the answer appears to be an obvious “yes,” they are incorrect. Russia may be locked in a battle with Ukraine, but geopolitically, it sees itself as waging war against the West on Ukrainian territory. In the Kremlin, Ukraine is seen as an anti-Russian weapon in Western hands—and destroying it will not automatically lead to Russia’s victory in this anti-Western geopolitical game. For Putin, this war is not between Russia and Ukraine—and Ukrainian leadership is not an independent actor but a Western tool that must be neutralized.
So, whatever concessions Ukraine could make (regardless of how politically realistic they may be), Putin will continue escalating the war until the West changes its approach to the so-called Russian problem and admits that—as Putin sees it—the roots of Russian aggression are the result of Washington ignoring Russian geopolitical concerns for 30 years. This has been Putin’s real objective for a long time, and it remains unchanged. Unrealistic Russian demands rejected by Kyiv are even a way for the Kremlin to increase the stakes in a Russia-West confrontation, testing the West’s ability to stay united and consistent. The West today is looking at the problem in the wrong light: In seeking to stop Russia’s war, it focuses on Moscow’s artificial pretexts for its invasion of Ukraine and overlooks Putin’s obsession with the so-called Western threat as well as his readiness to use escalation to coerce the West into a dialogue on Russian terms. Ukraine is only a hostage.
Assumption 3: Putin is not only losing militarily but also domestically, and the political situation in Russia is such that Putin could soon face a coup.
The opposite is the case, at least for the moment. The Russian elite have become so worried about how to guarantee political stability and avoid protests that they have consolidated around Putin as the only leader able to firm up the political system and prevent disorder. The elite are politically impotent, scared, and vulnerable—including those portrayed in Western media as warmongers and hawks. To make a move against Putin today is tantamount to suicide unless Putin starts to lose his ability to rule (physically or mentally). Despite new splits and cracks within the ranks and unhappiness with Putin’s policies, the regime stands firm. The main threat to Putin is Putin himself. Although time may be against him, the waking up of the elite is a process that will take much longer than many people expect. It will depend on how present Putin remains in day-to-day government.
Assumption 4: Putin is afraid of anti-war protests.
The truth is that Putin is more afraid of pro-war protests and has to take into account the eagerness of many Russians to see the destruction of what they call Ukrainian Nazis. Public mood could drive escalation, prompting Putin to be more hawkish and resolute, even if it is a result of the Kremlin’s own propaganda. This is extremely important: Putin has awakened a dark nationalism he is more and more dependent on. Whatever happens to Putin, the world will have to deal with this public aggression and anti-West, anti-liberal convictions that make Russia problematic for the West.
Assumption 5: Putin has been deeply disappointed in his entourage and greenlit the criminal prosecution of senior officials.
This is an intensely discussed issue in the West. It arises from speculation about the arrest of Putin’s former Deputy chief of staff Vladislav Surkov; the detention of Sergey Beseda, a top security officer responsible for Ukraine; and purges among Putin’s inner circle. All these rumors should be viewed with extreme skepticism. Firstly, there has been no confirmation of any of them. (Rather, high-placed sources suggest that neither Beseda nor Surkov have been arrested.) Secondly, Putin is likely upset and disappointed with his staff, but it’s not his style to purge his inner circle unless serious crimes have been committed. Intentions are all that matter to Putin, and if Russia’s secret services miscalculated or even misinformed him without malign intentions, there will be no prosecutions. Finally, the military campaign in Ukraine has been closely managed by Putin from the outset with very little room for subordinates to show any initiative.
All this means that the Western dilemma—to double down on support for Ukraine because Putin is losing or to appease Putin because he is desperate and dangerous—is fundamentally misguided. There can be only two possible outcomes. Either the West changes its approach to Russia and begins to take seriously the Russian concerns that led to this war or Putin’s regime falls apart and Russia revises its geopolitical ambitions.
For the moment, both Russia and the West appear to believe that their counterpart is doomed and that time is on their side. Putin dreams about the West suffering from political upheaval, whereas the West dreams about Putin being removed, overthrown, or dropping dead from one of many diseases he is regularly rumored to be suffering. No one is right. At the end of the day, a deal between Russia and Ukraine is only possible as an extension of an agreement between Russia and the West or as a result of the collapse of Putin’s regime. And that gives you an idea of how long the war could last: years, at best.
Tatiana Stanovaya is a nonresident scholar at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and the founder and CEO of political analysis firm R.Politik.
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02.06.2022, 11:12
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Interesting perspective on how the West misinterprets Russia and in consequence that this war might go on forever.
---- What The West (Still) Gets Wrong About Putin
Asking whether to appease or not appease him is completely beside the point.
By Tatiana Stanovaya, a nonresident scholar at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/06/01...isconceptions/ | | | | | good article, thanks.
ive noticed in general there's been a bit less 'cheerleading' for ukraine and a bit more sombre analyses coming out. not sure if its due to dwindling interest or an acceptance of reality.
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02.06.2022, 12:20
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | ive noticed in general there's been a bit less 'cheerleading' for ukraine and a bit more sombre analyses coming out. not sure if its due to dwindling interest or an acceptance of reality. | | | | | It's an opinion piece written by a Russian, don't assume it represent a shift in the view of the West towards Russia. I personally disagree with a lot of points she's made, but it still remains to be seen how this will play out.
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02.06.2022, 14:18
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
From the Putin article "The military campaign in Ukraine has been closely managed by Putin from the outset" good news, let us hope he continues so rather than have the campaign led by a top military officer.
Also "it’s not his style to purge his inner circle unless serious crimes have been committed." so presumably yesterday's story that lieutenant general Mikhail Zusko was arrested for treason is also false. Since Zusko is believed to be one of the better Russian generals arresting him would be typical of the failures of this regime.
I agree that Assumptions one to four are probably not correct.
The unknown factor is the oligarchs, with such huge amounts of money in play then paying somebody a few million to drop Polonium or something similar in Putin's afternoon tea would be a trivial decision.
There was a rumour that Putin replaced all his personal staff in February in fear of a poison plot.
After the failure to kill Rasputin with poison, there have been many rumours about attempts to poison Russian Presidents who all died in mysterious circumstances behind closed doors. It is rumoured Stalin died after a heart attack because he did not get sufficient medical treatment.
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02.06.2022, 16:10
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
The lore about Stalin's death is that his staff feared to enter his room without his approval, but he was lying on the floor, paralyzed and unable to speak from a stroke.
It took 17 hours, AFAIK, until somebody dared to open the door - by that time, he was already a vegetable and could no longer be saved.
He, too, got increasingly paranoid towards the end.
I would be careful putting too much trust (or hope) in the rumors of his declining health. In most cases, these people know nothing and just want to sell a story. After all, the Kremlin isn't going to deny every lunatic story hitting the Daily Mail.
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02.06.2022, 16:23
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Wasn't there some Ukrainian intelligence official recently on record saying (1) yes, Putin has several diseases including cancer, and (2) no, he will not die for at least several years.
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02.06.2022, 16:39
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Wasn't there some Ukrainian intelligence official recently on record saying (1) yes, Putin has several diseases including cancer, and (2) no, he will not die for at least several years. | | | | | All of them, Putin, the Ayatollah, Kim Jong-un, have some serious diseases, supposedly, and yet they all "rule happily ever after" | 
02.06.2022, 16:55
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Currently occupied UA territory in comparison to equal amount of sqkm in other European countries. https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/statu...nVAmDKz7w&s=19 | The following 2 users would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post: | |
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