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  #661  
Old 02.07.2014, 07:59
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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...sanctions are very bad for everyone involved ... they can and should be used...
A more schizophrenic/hypocritical post is hardly possible.
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  #662  
Old 02.07.2014, 08:13
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Overall Putin plays this very cleverly.


I find it strange that most of the leaders of the separist groups are Russian citizens; does not look like an Ukranian led separation'
Well, Russians have historically often fought their own political wars in another territories. Or, citizenship is actually irrelevant where most people and families come from both background. And more. It is always difficult when ethnic, religious and national interests come abused to gain influence and political power in post federal states. The only peaceful split was CZ-SK.
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  #663  
Old 02.07.2014, 08:16
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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A more schizophrenic/hypocritical post is hardly possible.
Slow down dude....
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  #664  
Old 02.07.2014, 14:19
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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A more schizophrenic/hypocritical post is hardly possible.
I'm sure your doctor told you everything about schizophrenia by now

I'm not going to dignify it with a further response as I don't talk to idiots. Sorry, pal.. go back to your doctor/pills
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  #665  
Old 02.07.2014, 14:54
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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In regard to Russia, sanctions may vitalize reserves of that nation to resist Western pressures
This is what I personally doubt as IMHO sanctions will be pushing Russia to either give up on its aggression towards Ukraine, or go back to the poor version repeat of Cold war/Soviet times (isolation, economical struggles, artificial patriotism etc.). I clearly remember those times - there were very little reserves vitalization during the last 40 years of the USSR, and lots of stagnation and wasted time. And there are lots of people in current Russia that don't want that repeat at all (though their voices are currently shut down).

An open war against Russia WILL surely cause reserves vitalization their, but economical sanctions should only speed up Putin's regime collapse I think (if it refuses to compromise). They may come at a heavy price for the West, too, as mentioned in my previous post, but they will undoubtedly help Ukraine to defend its independence, and may also put damper on any aggressive plans Russia might have towards other countries in Europe (Georgia, Moldova, Latvia, Lithuania etc.) should Russia succeed with its plans in Ukraine.

Last edited by Felix.; 02.07.2014 at 16:40.
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  #666  
Old 02.07.2014, 16:29
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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This is what I personally doubt as IMHO sanctions will be pushing Russia to either give up on its aggression towards Ukraine...
There is no Russian "aggression towards Ukraine" — and no amount of mindless repetition to the contrary will change that fact.
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  #667  
Old 02.07.2014, 16:32
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Interesting info (that further explains why Europe doesn't want to impose severe sanctions on Russia and cut any economic ties with it):
in Germany there are about 300K workers involved in fulfilment of Russia-related contracts (manufacturing etc.), and in France there are about 100K.

Don't know how accurate these figures are. Has anyone heard any official statements regarding this?
Large numbers. Though they don't surprise me as Russia needs to import a lot of different things.

Also, from the latest news from the region - Russia is beginning to take measures on its the border to not allow their own armed thugs back into the country. This is of course a very logical thing to do (who wants them to start causing issues in Russia itself?), but still quite funny..

Last edited by Felix.; 02.07.2014 at 17:01.
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  #668  
Old 02.07.2014, 16:38
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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There is no Russian "aggression towards Ukraine" — and no amount of mindless repetition to the contrary will change that fact.
Yess, you are right. Now please take the other pill so that my "mindless repetitions" don't upset you so much
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  #669  
Old 02.07.2014, 17:06
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Well, Russians have historically often fought their own political wars in another territories. Or, citizenship is actually irrelevant where most people and families come from both background. And more. It is always difficult when ethnic, religious and national interests come abused to gain influence and political power in post federal states. The only peaceful split was CZ-SK.
About "citizenship is actually irrelevant" - the situation appears to be that Russian citizens are crossing into Ukraine and then leading the so called "Ukraine pro-Russian groups". Myself I find this to be very strange.

If the groups were led by Ukrainians from Russian backgrounds then I would not find that strange.

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There is no Russian "aggression towards Ukraine" — and no amount of mindless repetition to the contrary will change that fact.
Where's the unequivocal evidence of no Russian "aggression towards Ukraine"
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Old 02.07.2014, 17:08
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Interesting info (that further explains why Europe doesn't want to impose severe sanctions on Russia and cut any economic ties with it):
in Germany there are about 300K workers involved in fulfilment of Russia-related contracts (manufacturing etc.), and in France there are about 100K.

Don't know how accurate these figures are. Has anyone heard any official statements regarding this?
Large numbers. Though they don't surprise me as Russia needs to import a lot of different things.

Also, from the latest news from the region - Russia is beginning to take measures on its the border to not allow their own armed thugs back into the country. This is of course a very logical thing to do (who wants them to start causing issues in Russia itself?), but still quite funny..
About "Russia is beginning to take measures on its the border to not allow their own armed thugs back into the country." I suppose it will also encourage them to fight harder if they have no home to go to.
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Old 02.07.2014, 17:28
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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About "Russia is beginning to take measures on its the border to not allow their own armed thugs back into the country." I suppose it will also encourage them to fight harder if they have no home to go to.
Hopefully not The thing is, they can easily slip through the border individually or in small groups as there is really no border control there outside of the major roads. What I guess Russia is trying to prevent is them coming back in large armed squads with which they won't know what to do. Of course, the ideal scenario for Russia is that they cause as much damage in the Ukraine, weaken its army, and then die there, as the majority of them is of "unwelcome at home" type - veterans of former wars and retired military personnel who still want to fight, paid militants who don't care where to fight for money, volunteers from various Russian nationalistic organizations (who are a danger for Putin if he fails to satisfy their pretty big nationalistic demands and build powerful "Great Russia")..
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  #672  
Old 02.07.2014, 18:16
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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...Where's the unequivocal evidence of no Russian "aggression towards Ukraine"
If you understood logic, you would understand that a negative can't be proven, but a positive can. Your question should therefore be "Where's the unequivocal evidence of Russian aggression towards Ukraine?"

(But don't expect a productive answer of any substance here — you'll just get more mindless repetition of the tired Western anti-Russian propaganda.)
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Old 02.07.2014, 18:24
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Yess, you are right. Now please take the other pill so that my "mindless repetitions" don't upset you so much
You can play your petty games all you want, but the fact remains that no compelling, unequivocal evidence has appeared supporting the Western pretense of Russian "aggression" against Ukraine.
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Old 02.07.2014, 18:48
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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If you understood logic, you would understand that a negative can't be proven, but a positive can. Your question should therefore be "Where's the unequivocal evidence of Russian aggression towards Ukraine?"

(But don't expect a productive answer of any substance here — you'll just get more mindless repetition of the tired Western anti-Russian propaganda.)
It is a common fallacy to say a negative cannot be proven but there are many approaches to this problem; here is just one; http://departments.bloomu.edu/philos...eanegative.pdf

Plus the well known Russells teapot

And you can Google for many others.
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Old 02.07.2014, 18:53
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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It is a common fallacy to say a negative cannot be proven but there are many approaches to this problem; here is just one; http://departments.bloomu.edu/philos...eanegative.pdf

Plus the well known Russells teapot

And you can Google for many others.
So let's cut to the chase: What exactly would constitute (in your opinion) plausible proof that there is no Russian aggression against Ukraine? Be specific — evasive generalities aren't helpful here.

Meanwhile, you — and the rest of your chorus — could help your own cause immensely (and settle the issue once and for all) by providing unequivocal positive proof that there is Russian aggressian against Ukraine.

But you — and the rest of your chorus — haven't, can't and won't.

Last edited by Texaner; 02.07.2014 at 19:57.
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  #676  
Old 02.07.2014, 19:33
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World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Ukrainian armed forces claim killing a thousand of rebels in last days - that's horrible. Those who sent these "rebels" for a sure death should go to hell.
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  #677  
Old 02.07.2014, 19:51
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

This (Kiev, Russia, Germany, France agree to ceasefire) is some of the best news I've heard on this matter so far. I truly hope it comes to pass and leads to a bilateral peaceful long-term solution.
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  #678  
Old 02.07.2014, 21:39
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Texaner, thank you for the red blobs. I think you are stupid.
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Old 02.07.2014, 21:41
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I'm sure your doctor told you everything about schizophrenia by now

I'm not going to dignify it with a further response as I don't talk to idiots. Sorry, pal.. go back to your doctor/pills
He gave me red blobs for telling him off.
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Old 02.07.2014, 22:51
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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He gave me red blobs for telling him off.
Yeah, I think he gave them to me in the past, too. He is a great guy
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