 | | | 
11.06.2022, 20:46
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,653
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,519 Times in 4,117 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | There was an interesting point made by Gen Hertling who said it is just as much about training as it is about supply. Apparently the tubes of the delivered howitzers have to be exchanged after firing 2000 rounds, and it was not clear the Ukrainians have the spares and the know-how. | | | | | I think that there will be western "advisers" on the ground in Ukraine, just like there were Russian "advisers" flying MIGīs down Mig alley in Korea.
| 
11.06.2022, 21:22
|  | Modulo 2 | | Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,172
Groaned at 346 Times in 299 Posts
Thanked 25,514 Times in 10,398 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I think that there will be western "advisers" on the ground in Ukraine, just like there were Russian "advisers" flying MIGīs down Mig alley in Korea. | | | | | It's already been reported that British advisers are there.
| This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post: | | 
11.06.2022, 21:43
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,653
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,519 Times in 4,117 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | It's already been reported that British advisers are there. | | | | | Oh goody, why canīt these bugger just declare WW3 and get it over with?
| This user would like to thank slammer for this useful post: | | 
11.06.2022, 21:58
| Member | | Join Date: May 2017 Location: Zurich
Posts: 116
Groaned at 16 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 214 Times in 116 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Oh goody, why canīt these bugger just declare WW3 and get it over with? | | | | | Weren't you the one worried about nuclear escalation?
| This user would like to thank Excad for this useful post: | | 
11.06.2022, 22:41
|  | Modulo 2 | | Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,172
Groaned at 346 Times in 299 Posts
Thanked 25,514 Times in 10,398 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
The dates of the beginning of WW2 are different between countries. Personally, I think it was 1914.
Why should WW3 be different?
Anyway, why would this be WW3. WW1 and WW2 had countries around the world involved in it. So far as I'm aware in this one, Russia has no real allies. At least not ones ready to take up arms against NATO, Japan, Australia...
| The following 2 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post: | | 
12.06.2022, 00:12
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,653
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,519 Times in 4,117 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Weren't you the one worried about nuclear escalation? | | | | | Jup! But the suspense is killing me.
| 
12.06.2022, 00:18
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,653
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,519 Times in 4,117 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | The dates of the beginning of WW2 are different between countries. Personally, I think it was 1914.
Why should WW3 be different?
Anyway, why would this be WW3. WW1 and WW2 had countries around the world involved in it. So far as I'm aware in this one, Russia has no real allies. At least not ones ready to take up arms against NATO, Japan, Australia... | | | | | Itīs more the old cold war thinking. Nato + Warsaw Pact= WW3...
Nato (America) Warsaw Pact (Russia) The rest of the world will be involved one way or another.
| 
12.06.2022, 00:34
| Banned | | Join Date: Mar 2022 Location: Geneva
Posts: 42
Groaned at 49 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 39 Times in 24 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Not mercenaries. | | | | | Got it - not tourism. So garlic crop then.
| 
12.06.2022, 06:11
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Basel
Posts: 15,567
Groaned at 304 Times in 204 Posts
Thanked 19,857 Times in 8,367 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post: | | 
12.06.2022, 07:44
|  | Modulo 2 | | Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,172
Groaned at 346 Times in 299 Posts
Thanked 25,514 Times in 10,398 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Got it - not tourism. So garlic crop then. | | | | | Probably white as well. | This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post: | | 
12.06.2022, 11:00
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: BL
Posts: 1,281
Groaned at 235 Times in 170 Posts
Thanked 4,599 Times in 1,736 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | This resonates a lot with the countries in Eastern Europe and is a "classical" soviet playbook. The "liberated" have to pay with their lives for being "liberated". Of course, the normal people never asked to be liberated, but then again, whose asking them. A brutal, brutal regime which cares only about it's own narrow goals at the expense of hundreds of thousands of lost lives and millions of broken ones.
| The following 4 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post: | | 
12.06.2022, 14:01
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Zurich
Posts: 588
Groaned at 103 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 1,580 Times in 821 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Vladimir Putin looking to emulate Peter the Great !! BBC News - Putin likens himself to Peter the Great | The following 3 users would like to thank John William for this useful post: | | 
12.06.2022, 14:39
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,363
Groaned at 718 Times in 602 Posts
Thanked 24,036 Times in 12,587 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Ukrainian troops are suffering massive losses as they are outgunned 20 to one in artillery and 40 to one in ammunition by Russian forces, according to new intelligence painting a bleak picture of the conflict on the frontline https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2096715.html | | | | | For those who like fact free conspiracy theories, the Independent is owned by an ex-KGB Russian oligarch named Lord Evgeny Lebedev who was sanctioned in Canada.
| The following 6 users would like to thank marton for this useful post: | | 
12.06.2022, 16:34
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Zurich
Posts: 588
Groaned at 103 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 1,580 Times in 821 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | For those who like fact free conspiracy theories, the Independent is owned by an ex-KGB Russian oligarch named Lord Evgeny Lebedev who was sanctioned in Canada. | | | | | Aye yet another stain on the judgement and character of British Prime Minister, Boris Johnson who nominated Evgeny Aleaxandrovich Lebedev for the peerage back in July 2020, despite the protestations from the British Security services but there again Boris has been 'over chummy' with Lebedev over the years.
| The following 2 users would like to thank John William for this useful post: | | 
12.06.2022, 16:50
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: BL
Posts: 1,281
Groaned at 235 Times in 170 Posts
Thanked 4,599 Times in 1,736 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Aye yet another stain on the judgement and character of British Prime Minister, Boris Johnson who nominated Evgeny Aleaxandrovich Lebedev for the peerage back in July 2020, despite the protestations from the British Security services but there again Boris has been 'over chummy' with Lebedev over the years. | | | | | Yes, BUT all of them (UK, Germany, France, Italy) are now aware what threat and danger putin is. Not that my opinion matters, but I'd rather "forgive" them their past sins, but if they relax the pressure on Russia in the near future, this would be unforgivable. One can (should?) give them the benefit of doubt for the past, but from now on they have no excuse. Today's Russia is like cancer, it will spread until checked or will consume everything on it's path.
| The following 2 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post: | | 
12.06.2022, 17:09
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Kt.Zh
Posts: 12,128
Groaned at 485 Times in 400 Posts
Thanked 19,002 Times in 9,614 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | Like a true dictator, he has an obsession with great historical figures....
| 
12.06.2022, 18:36
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,653
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,519 Times in 4,117 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Yes, BUT all of them (UK, Germany, France, Italy) are now aware what threat and danger putin is. Not that my opinion matters, but I'd rather "forgive" them their past sins, but if they relax the pressure on Russia in the near future, this would be unforgivable. One can (should?) give them the benefit of doubt for the past, but from now on they have no excuse. Today's Russia is like cancer, it will spread until checked or will consume everything on it's path. | | | | | How do we do it. How do we check Russia?
Russia hasnīt been checked by talking to the Kremlin, Sanctions havnīt brought Russia into line. Supplying arms to the enemy hasnīt brought Russia to the negotiating table. All attempts by the west to "check" Russia have failed.
Actually they seem to be hurting us more than them. How long will people in the west be cool with out of control prices, inflation and the threat of a new covid wave with all the bells and whistles in autumn.
Now itīs a waiting game of who blinks first, who will be the first to give up.. Russia? Ukraine? or the West.
__________________
Back in Bavaria, godīs own belly button.
Last edited by slammer; 12.06.2022 at 19:47.
| 
12.06.2022, 19:27
|  | Modulo 2 | | Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,172
Groaned at 346 Times in 299 Posts
Thanked 25,514 Times in 10,398 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | For those who like fact free conspiracy theories, the Independent is owned by an ex-KGB Russian oligarch named Lord Evgeny Lebedev who was sanctioned in Canada. | | | | | Close. It was Evgeny's dad, Alexander who bought it. Lord Evgeny (elevated to the peerage despite security concerns, by Boris Johnson) is now a part owner with his dad. And they own the Evening Standard.
| This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post: | | 
12.06.2022, 20:16
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: BL
Posts: 1,281
Groaned at 235 Times in 170 Posts
Thanked 4,599 Times in 1,736 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | How do we do it. How do we check Russia?
Russia hasnīt been checked by talking to the Kremlin, Sanctions havnīt brought Russia into line. Supplying arms to the enemy hasnīt brought Russia to the negotiating table. All attempts by the west to "check" Russia have failed.
Actually they seem to be hurting us more than them. How long will people in the west be cool with out of control prices, inflation and the threat of a new covid wave with all the bells and whistles in autumn.
Now itīs a waiting game of who blinks first, who will be the first to give up.. Russia? Ukraine? or the West. | | | | | IMHO putin speak only the language of power and strength. His mentality is one of a schoolyard bully and he pushes until checked. Eastern Europe has been screaming about him for decades, asking for military support, bases, weapons and a tougher stance against him to no avail. Now is the time to move all the NATO bases as far east as possible. The Baltics, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, the Black Sea. These should be swarming with NATO bases, ships and jets. It might be helpful to do a few "showcase" ops in Syria just to send the message loud and clear "you're no match for us and we're engaging you whenever you project strength". Wrecking his economy is the right move, but it will not be on its own enough to check him, its projecting raw power what will make the difference.
| 
12.06.2022, 20:38
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,653
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,519 Times in 4,117 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | IMHO putin speak only the language of power and strength. His mentality is one of a schoolyard bully and he pushes until checked. Eastern Europe has been screaming about him for decades, asking for military support, bases, weapons and a tougher stance against him to no avail. Now is the time to move all the NATO bases as far east as possible. The Baltics, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, the Black Sea. These should be swarming with NATO bases, ships and jets. It might be helpful to do a few "showcase" ops in Syria just to send the message loud and clear "you're no match for us and we're engaging you whenever you project strength". Wrecking his economy is the right move, but it will not be on its own enough to check him, its projecting raw power what will make the difference. | | | | | The problem with all the militaristic grrr-woof-woofery is what are you going to when Putin calls your bluff? We are already at the „Yo Mama“ stage. How are you going to project raw power and not be prepared to back it up with war?
And personally I don’t think we will pull the trigger, then what? Europe will be weighed as the toothless tiger it is.
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (3 members and 1 guests) | Elu, gaburko | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:08. | |