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11.06.2022, 20:46
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | There was an interesting point made by Gen Hertling who said it is just as much about training as it is about supply. Apparently the tubes of the delivered howitzers have to be exchanged after firing 2000 rounds, and it was not clear the Ukrainians have the spares and the know-how. | | | | | I think that there will be western "advisers" on the ground in Ukraine, just like there were Russian "advisers" flying MIGīs down Mig alley in Korea.
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11.06.2022, 21:22
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I think that there will be western "advisers" on the ground in Ukraine, just like there were Russian "advisers" flying MIGīs down Mig alley in Korea. | | | | | It's already been reported that British advisers are there.
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11.06.2022, 21:43
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | It's already been reported that British advisers are there. | | | | | Oh goody, why canīt these bugger just declare WW3 and get it over with?
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11.06.2022, 21:58
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Oh goody, why canīt these bugger just declare WW3 and get it over with? | | | | | Weren't you the one worried about nuclear escalation?
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11.06.2022, 22:41
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
The dates of the beginning of WW2 are different between countries. Personally, I think it was 1914.
Why should WW3 be different?
Anyway, why would this be WW3. WW1 and WW2 had countries around the world involved in it. So far as I'm aware in this one, Russia has no real allies. At least not ones ready to take up arms against NATO, Japan, Australia...
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12.06.2022, 00:12
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Weren't you the one worried about nuclear escalation? | | | | | Jup! But the suspense is killing me.
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12.06.2022, 00:18
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | The dates of the beginning of WW2 are different between countries. Personally, I think it was 1914.
Why should WW3 be different?
Anyway, why would this be WW3. WW1 and WW2 had countries around the world involved in it. So far as I'm aware in this one, Russia has no real allies. At least not ones ready to take up arms against NATO, Japan, Australia... | | | | | Itīs more the old cold war thinking. Nato + Warsaw Pact= WW3...
Nato (America) Warsaw Pact (Russia) The rest of the world will be involved one way or another.
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12.06.2022, 00:34
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Not mercenaries. | | | | | Got it - not tourism. So garlic crop then.
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12.06.2022, 06:11
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post: | | 
12.06.2022, 07:44
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Got it - not tourism. So garlic crop then. | | | | | Probably white as well. | This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post: | | 
12.06.2022, 11:00
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | This resonates a lot with the countries in Eastern Europe and is a "classical" soviet playbook. The "liberated" have to pay with their lives for being "liberated". Of course, the normal people never asked to be liberated, but then again, whose asking them. A brutal, brutal regime which cares only about it's own narrow goals at the expense of hundreds of thousands of lost lives and millions of broken ones.
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12.06.2022, 14:01
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Vladimir Putin looking to emulate Peter the Great !! BBC News - Putin likens himself to Peter the Great | The following 3 users would like to thank John William for this useful post: | | 
12.06.2022, 14:39
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Ukrainian troops are suffering massive losses as they are outgunned 20 to one in artillery and 40 to one in ammunition by Russian forces, according to new intelligence painting a bleak picture of the conflict on the frontline https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2096715.html | | | | | For those who like fact free conspiracy theories, the Independent is owned by an ex-KGB Russian oligarch named Lord Evgeny Lebedev who was sanctioned in Canada.
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12.06.2022, 16:34
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | For those who like fact free conspiracy theories, the Independent is owned by an ex-KGB Russian oligarch named Lord Evgeny Lebedev who was sanctioned in Canada. | | | | | Aye yet another stain on the judgement and character of British Prime Minister, Boris Johnson who nominated Evgeny Aleaxandrovich Lebedev for the peerage back in July 2020, despite the protestations from the British Security services but there again Boris has been 'over chummy' with Lebedev over the years.
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12.06.2022, 16:50
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Aye yet another stain on the judgement and character of British Prime Minister, Boris Johnson who nominated Evgeny Aleaxandrovich Lebedev for the peerage back in July 2020, despite the protestations from the British Security services but there again Boris has been 'over chummy' with Lebedev over the years. | | | | | Yes, BUT all of them (UK, Germany, France, Italy) are now aware what threat and danger putin is. Not that my opinion matters, but I'd rather "forgive" them their past sins, but if they relax the pressure on Russia in the near future, this would be unforgivable. One can (should?) give them the benefit of doubt for the past, but from now on they have no excuse. Today's Russia is like cancer, it will spread until checked or will consume everything on it's path.
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12.06.2022, 17:09
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | Like a true dictator, he has an obsession with great historical figures....
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12.06.2022, 18:36
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Yes, BUT all of them (UK, Germany, France, Italy) are now aware what threat and danger putin is. Not that my opinion matters, but I'd rather "forgive" them their past sins, but if they relax the pressure on Russia in the near future, this would be unforgivable. One can (should?) give them the benefit of doubt for the past, but from now on they have no excuse. Today's Russia is like cancer, it will spread until checked or will consume everything on it's path. | | | | | How do we do it. How do we check Russia?
Russia hasnīt been checked by talking to the Kremlin, Sanctions havnīt brought Russia into line. Supplying arms to the enemy hasnīt brought Russia to the negotiating table. All attempts by the west to "check" Russia have failed.
Actually they seem to be hurting us more than them. How long will people in the west be cool with out of control prices, inflation and the threat of a new covid wave with all the bells and whistles in autumn.
Now itīs a waiting game of who blinks first, who will be the first to give up.. Russia? Ukraine? or the West.
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Last edited by slammer; 12.06.2022 at 19:47.
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12.06.2022, 19:27
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | For those who like fact free conspiracy theories, the Independent is owned by an ex-KGB Russian oligarch named Lord Evgeny Lebedev who was sanctioned in Canada. | | | | | Close. It was Evgeny's dad, Alexander who bought it. Lord Evgeny (elevated to the peerage despite security concerns, by Boris Johnson) is now a part owner with his dad. And they own the Evening Standard.
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12.06.2022, 20:16
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | How do we do it. How do we check Russia?
Russia hasnīt been checked by talking to the Kremlin, Sanctions havnīt brought Russia into line. Supplying arms to the enemy hasnīt brought Russia to the negotiating table. All attempts by the west to "check" Russia have failed.
Actually they seem to be hurting us more than them. How long will people in the west be cool with out of control prices, inflation and the threat of a new covid wave with all the bells and whistles in autumn.
Now itīs a waiting game of who blinks first, who will be the first to give up.. Russia? Ukraine? or the West. | | | | | IMHO putin speak only the language of power and strength. His mentality is one of a schoolyard bully and he pushes until checked. Eastern Europe has been screaming about him for decades, asking for military support, bases, weapons and a tougher stance against him to no avail. Now is the time to move all the NATO bases as far east as possible. The Baltics, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, the Black Sea. These should be swarming with NATO bases, ships and jets. It might be helpful to do a few "showcase" ops in Syria just to send the message loud and clear "you're no match for us and we're engaging you whenever you project strength". Wrecking his economy is the right move, but it will not be on its own enough to check him, its projecting raw power what will make the difference.
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12.06.2022, 20:38
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| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | IMHO putin speak only the language of power and strength. His mentality is one of a schoolyard bully and he pushes until checked. Eastern Europe has been screaming about him for decades, asking for military support, bases, weapons and a tougher stance against him to no avail. Now is the time to move all the NATO bases as far east as possible. The Baltics, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, the Black Sea. These should be swarming with NATO bases, ships and jets. It might be helpful to do a few "showcase" ops in Syria just to send the message loud and clear "you're no match for us and we're engaging you whenever you project strength". Wrecking his economy is the right move, but it will not be on its own enough to check him, its projecting raw power what will make the difference. | | | | | The problem with all the militaristic grrr-woof-woofery is what are you going to when Putin calls your bluff? We are already at the „Yo Mama“ stage. How are you going to project raw power and not be prepared to back it up with war?
And personally I don’t think we will pull the trigger, then what? Europe will be weighed as the toothless tiger it is.
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