Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #6941  
Old 12.06.2022, 20:44
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 1,280
Groaned at 235 Times in 170 Posts
Thanked 4,598 Times in 1,736 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
And personally I don’t think we will pull the trigger, then what? Europe will be weighed as the toothless tiger it is.
That's the point, the West will never be the one to pull the trigger first. Equipping the smaller, weaker countries around him, which are NATO members btw is enough. Hitting him in Syria, which has happened btw, US and Russian soldiers have exchanged fire there, would be enough to send a message.
Reply With Quote
  #6942  
Old 12.06.2022, 20:44
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 4,077
Groaned at 399 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 8,751 Times in 3,739 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
The problem with all the militaristic grrr-woof-woofery is what are you going to when Putin calls your bluff? We are already at the „Yo Mama“ stage. How are you going to project raw power and not be prepared to back it up with war?
And personally I don’t think we will pull the trigger, then what? Europe will be weighed as the toothless tiger it is.
Cannot see what's wrong with fortifying NATO borders. Whether f---ing around in Syria is helpful, I don't know.

But what is your suggestion?
Reply With Quote
  #6943  
Old 12.06.2022, 21:06
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 588
Groaned at 103 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 1,580 Times in 821 Posts
John William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Yes, BUT all of them (UK, Germany, France, Italy) are now aware what threat and danger putin is. Not that my opinion matters, but I'd rather "forgive" them their past sins, but if they relax the pressure on Russia in the near future, this would be unforgivable. One can (should?) give them the benefit of doubt for the past, but from now on they have no excuse. Today's Russia is like cancer, it will spread until checked or will consume everything on it's path.
Well the problem is few were 'brought to book' in Russia following the collapse of the Soviet Union & the fall of the Berlin Wall, unlike the other end of the scale where plenty were 'brought to book' and hauled before the courts for crimes against humanity and the subjugation of human rights; in the Deutsche Demokratische Republik ( DDR ) after East Germany fell and merged with West Germany following Reunification.

The Stasi and anyone who worked for the Stasi were vilified and became subjects of condemnation & contempt. Unlike the KGB and former officers & members of the KGB, who were beyond censure in Russia and used their exalted positions and as it turns out, stockpiles of cash to 'buy out' or take control of many newly privatised Russian state companies, for their own gain and that of their comrades.
__________________
Surely the time has come for Boris to 'circle the wagons' for a bit of herd immunity ?
Reply With Quote
  #6944  
Old 12.06.2022, 21:23
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,653
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,519 Times in 4,117 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Sadly not one size fits all, Syria needs a different solution and in my opinion the west should back the secular Assad regime against the tooth gnashing islamics.
...Which would align us with Russia.
But that is just me.

Imagine if Putin were to say something like...: I dunno! "Hey guys, sorry, twas just a joke, a little Russian jokus, should not have taken it seriously. I have deleted my Facebook account and I´ll be going into exile in a monastry in Tibet by the way!"
What then, will there be a Marschall plan for Russia, how are you going to de-Putinify Russia, it has to be done otherwise Russia will be on the same track as Germany in 1919.
__________________
Back in Bavaria, god´s own belly button.
Reply With Quote
  #6945  
Old 12.06.2022, 21:48
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,653
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,519 Times in 4,117 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Cannot see what's wrong with fortifying NATO borders. Whether f---ing around in Syria is helpful, I don't know.

But what is your suggestion?
The usual...!
Nuke them.
Bribe them.
Or leave them alone.

No1 will hurt us more than it will hurt them.
No3 is against the Zeitgeist.
No2 it is...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank slammer for this useful post:
  #6946  
Old 12.06.2022, 21:51
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 4,077
Groaned at 399 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 8,751 Times in 3,739 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
The usual...!
Nuke them.
Bribe them.
Or leave them alone.

No1 will hurt us more than it will hurt them.
No3 is against the Zeitgeist.
No2 it is...
That's what I thought. So ideally just look the other way, but now that the Russians sit on a fifth of Ukraine, we pay them to stop.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #6947  
Old 12.06.2022, 21:56
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 16,170
Groaned at 346 Times in 299 Posts
Thanked 25,512 Times in 10,397 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Europe will be weighed as the toothless tiger it is.
Yeah. That's what Putin thought up until about the 27th February this year.
Reply With Quote
  #6948  
Old 12.06.2022, 22:10
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,653
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,519 Times in 4,117 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
That's what I thought. So ideally just look the other way, but now that the Russians sit on a fifth of Ukraine, we pay them to stop.
YES, it´s what I have been saying all along.
Reply With Quote
  #6949  
Old 12.06.2022, 22:12
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,363
Groaned at 718 Times in 602 Posts
Thanked 24,035 Times in 12,586 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Sadly not one size fits all, Syria needs a different solution and in my opinion the west should back the secular Assad regime against the tooth gnashing islamics.
...Which would align us with Russia.
But that is just me.

Imagine if Putin were to say something like...: I dunno! "Hey guys, sorry, twas just a joke, a little Russian jokus, should not have taken it seriously. I have deleted my Facebook account and I´ll be going into exile in a monastry in Tibet by the way!"
What then, will there be a Marschall plan for Russia, how are you going to de-Putinify Russia, it has to be done otherwise Russia will be on the same track as Germany in 1919.
Assad? Secular?

The family religion of al-Assad is Shia Islam, more specifically the Alawite sect. Syria's constitution is secular but states that the president must be Muslim.

Name:  assadprayer.jpg
Views: 173
Size:  161.4 KB

Last edited by marton; 12.06.2022 at 22:24.
Reply With Quote
  #6950  
Old 12.06.2022, 22:27
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,653
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,519 Times in 4,117 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Assad? Secular?

The family religion of al-Assad is Shia Islam, more specifically the Alawite sect. Syria's constitution is secular but states that the president must be Muslim.

Attachment 143847
Your point? He can genuflect to the flying spaghetti monster if he wants, the country for most part is secular.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank slammer for this useful post:
  #6951  
Old 12.06.2022, 22:31
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 4,077
Groaned at 399 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 8,751 Times in 3,739 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Your point? He can genuflect to the flying spaghetti monster if he wants, the country for most part is secular.
It's an Arab socialist republic which did some green window-dressing to appeal to the "conservatives".
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #6952  
Old 12.06.2022, 22:45
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 5,528
Groaned at 104 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 8,122 Times in 3,805 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
How do we do it. How do we check Russia?
Russia hasn´t been checked by talking to the Kremlin, Sanctions havn´t brought Russia into line. Supplying arms to the enemy hasn´t brought Russia to the negotiating table. All attempts by the west to "check" Russia have failed.
Actually they seem to be hurting us more than them. How long will people in the west be cool with out of control prices, inflation and the threat of a new covid wave with all the bells and whistles in autumn.
Now it´s a waiting game of who blinks first, who will be the first to give up.. Russia? Ukraine? or the West.
100 days of war, 5-6 weeks of sanctions, what do you expect?
Reply With Quote
  #6953  
Old 12.06.2022, 23:17
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,653
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,519 Times in 4,117 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
100 days of war, 5-6 weeks of sanctions, what do you expect?
I expect Somebody in the Kremlin armed with a sliderule to do the math. You can’t tell me that the Russians in charge are so vodka addled that they can no longer do basic calculations.
„Comrades, the West will hit us so and so, worst case SO AND SO, this will cause...“ you get what I mean.
Reply With Quote
  #6954  
Old 12.06.2022, 23:23
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kt.Zh
Posts: 12,127
Groaned at 485 Times in 400 Posts
Thanked 19,001 Times in 9,613 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Assad? Secular?[/URL]

The family religion of al-Assad is Shia Islam, more specifically the Alawite sect. Syria's constitution is secular but states that the president must be Muslim.
What a curse for Syrians, this Assad...I just hope that Putin will not transform Ukraine in another Syria.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #6955  
Old 12.06.2022, 23:29
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 5,528
Groaned at 104 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 8,122 Times in 3,805 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
I expect Somebody in the Kremlin armed with a sliderule to do the math. You can’t tell me that the Russians in charge are so vodka addled that they can no longer do basic calculations.
„Comrades, the West will hit us so and so, worst case SO AND SO, this will cause...“ you get what I mean.
You're assuming smart people could tell the consequences of the decisions to Fidel Castro....errrr Putin.

If you're waiting for a bang, look for a comfy seat. This is the slow withering of a plant with no rain.
Reply With Quote
  #6956  
Old 13.06.2022, 03:58
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 1,280
Groaned at 235 Times in 170 Posts
Thanked 4,598 Times in 1,736 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
I expect Somebody in the Kremlin armed with a sliderule to do the math. You can’t tell me that the Russians in charge are so vodka addled that they can no longer do basic calculations.
„Comrades, the West will hit us so and so, worst case SO AND SO, this will cause...“ you get what I mean.
There are smart people in Venezuela, North Korea, Iran. And yet, such regimes have a much higher resilience and survival rate than many in the West are willing to recognize. I believe this is why the US has long ago stopped trying to induce regime changes and moved to containment strategies. So if one can't induce regime change in the Kremlin, how can one contain Russia? What is your suggestion?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
  #6957  
Old 13.06.2022, 07:26
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,653
Groaned at 235 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 10,519 Times in 4,117 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
There are smart people in Venezuela, North Korea, Iran. And yet, such regimes have a much higher resilience and survival rate than many in the West are willing to recognize. I believe this is why the US has long ago stopped trying to induce regime changes and moved to containment strategies. So if one can't induce regime change in the Kremlin, how can one contain Russia? What is your suggestion?
Well, maybe that train has long left the stable. But instead of crapping on Russia from a great hight after the end of communism, perhaps treating Russia with respect and as equal would have gone a long way.
Perhaps even now there would be a way for dialogue if "The West" were to interact with Russia peacefully instead of regarding them as the enemy. You know, like adults in a civilized society. But that´s not the way we roll is it?
The other way I see is to go all in and start a war with Russia and we would not want that either.
__________________
Back in Bavaria, god´s own belly button.
Reply With Quote
  #6958  
Old 13.06.2022, 07:39
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kt.Zh
Posts: 12,127
Groaned at 485 Times in 400 Posts
Thanked 19,001 Times in 9,613 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Well, maybe that train has long left the stable. But instead of crapping on Russia from a great hight after the end of communism, perhaps treating Russia with respect and as equal would have gone a long way.
Perhaps even now there would be a way for dialogue if "The West" were to interact with Russia peacefully instead of regarding them as the enemy. You know, like adults in a civilized society. But that´s not the way we roll is it?
The other way I see is to go all in and start a war with Russia and we would not want that either.
Why did Russia deserve more respect than they had ever granted to its ex-satellites (and I mean after the fall of communism, I don't even mean the period before..), may I ask? On the contrary, Russia was treated with infinitely more respect than its "sister" countries, its politician infinitely less scrutinised, etc etc The West has courted Russia and was happy to buy relatively cheap resources without asking anything in return - such as fair elections and nobody to stay in power longer than 2 mandates.
Is it because of the nuclear weapons? Is this what it takes to be treated with respect? Let's all of us get those damn nukes if this is how we solve conflicts today.
It's enough that countries like North Korea got to have nukes, maybe this should have been the main preoccupation, how to get the nukes out, and I mean everybody here? Anyway, it is a moot point, whether this lack of respect as you call it was the cause of the war or not is not even important anymore.

My feeling is that Putin punishes Ukraine for trying to separate itself from the big Russian world, because they "betrayed"* Russia.
*in Putin's views. So it must be crushed...it's a lot of things mixed with vengeance too.

Last edited by greenmount; 13.06.2022 at 07:56.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #6959  
Old 13.06.2022, 07:53
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 1,280
Groaned at 235 Times in 170 Posts
Thanked 4,598 Times in 1,736 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Quote:
View Post
Perhaps even now there would be a way for dialogue if "The West" were to interact with Russia peacefully instead of regarding them as the enemy. You know, like adults in a civilized society.
Wait, this is EXACTLY how the west treated Russia ever since 1991. The West was led by Germany's philosophy of trade will bring Russia closer to the western civilization and tame it. In the meantime, Russia has been invading smaller countries and projecting power far away from home. Why do you believe this failed strategy will somehow be successful now?

If anything, I think it will achieve the exact opposite. Treating putin as a "civilized adult" now would only embolden him to do even more damage.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
  #6960  
Old 13.06.2022, 08:04
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kt.Zh
Posts: 12,127
Groaned at 485 Times in 400 Posts
Thanked 19,001 Times in 9,613 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

I have read that 7 millions of Ukrainians (of which 4 millions have entered Poland*, Poland which is not the richest country in Europe) have left the country in the past 4 months. Less than 4 months people! And 8 more millions of people are displaced within the country i.e. refugees in their own country. And it is not because they were looking for a better life, it was because they wanted to save their lives!
This is Putin's doing, who apparently deserves respect.
*I have edited my post for the sake of accuracy, I don't have the exact number of Ukrainians still living there.

Last edited by greenmount; 13.06.2022 at 08:41.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
crimea, russia, ukraine




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 6 (0 members and 6 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jewish Refugees in Switzerland during World War II zanskar International affairs/politics 48 16.06.2010 15:58
Book about Switzerland in the second world war [recommendation?] telandy Other/general 14 18.06.2007 20:15


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:43.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0