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Old 24.08.2022, 10:47
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Anything is possible, but why?
There are many more valuable targets like the military, FSB, politicians &&&
Because he is an older guy and less mobile/virile, not army or direct government so less security, hated by Ukranians for his politics, etc.....

I'm the conspiracy theorist for thinking Occam's razor applies here.....: msnsarcastic:

"I read that it could be an inside job"...well gee golly, let's go with that. I mean there is no proof, but since all Russians are bad guys and all Ukrainians are perfect angels, this most be it!
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Old 24.08.2022, 10:52
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Because he is an older guy and less mobile/virile, not army or direct government so less security, hated by Ukranians for his politics, etc.....

I'm the conspiracy theorist for thinking Occam's razor applies here.....: msnsarcastic:

"I read that it could be an inside job"...well gee golly, let's go with that. I mean there is no proof, but since all Russians are bad guys and all Ukrainians are perfect angels, this most be it!
Moscow and surrounding area are about 500 km behind enemy lines. So, logistics are a bit challenging considering Ukranians are struggling to defend their own soil.

Also, any antecedent of actions against non-military, non-political, and non-science targets in the past? It's an old-fashioned "intellectual" that does nothing else but write and talk. 20 years younger and the guy would have a podcast or be called an influencer.
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  #7283  
Old 24.08.2022, 11:01
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Because he is an older guy and less mobile/virile, not army or direct government so less security, hated by Ukranians for his politics, etc.....

I'm the conspiracy theorist for thinking Occam's razor applies here.....: msnsarcastic:

"I read that it could be an inside job"...well gee golly, let's go with that. I mean there is no proof, but since all Russians are bad guys and all Ukrainians are perfect angels, this most be it!
Just like me and you, I believe most Ukrainians had never heard of him before this incident so the claim they hated him has no feet.

Like the claim that he was Putin's guru is just a media fantasy, there is not a single foto of them together.

Edit: Before this assassination Alexander Dugin had not gotten even a single mention by the Russian news agency Tass, he is just an old philosopher with no real influence.
Putin has quoted other philosophers like Ivan Ilyin with quotes from Ivan in his speeches but not Dugin.

Last edited by marton; 24.08.2022 at 11:20.
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Old 24.08.2022, 12:39
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Moscow and surrounding area are about 500 km behind enemy lines. So, logistics are a bit challenging considering Ukranians are struggling to defend their own soil.

Also, any antecedent of actions against non-military, non-political, and non-science targets in the past? It's an old-fashioned "intellectual" that does nothing else but write and talk. 20 years younger and the guy would have a podcast or be called an influencer.
lol, you don‘t need to send a batallion to Moscow to assasinate 1 guy. As if there aren‘t hundreds or thousands of ID documents/passports of dead russians lying in Ukraine. The Gouvernement is flush with cash as well to finance a mission.

He‘s a getable target, the method of attack was terroristic in nature, designed to scare the russian people. If they could get this celebrity, who could be next.

I hope they reap what they sow
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  #7285  
Old 24.08.2022, 16:45
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Just like me and you, I believe most Ukrainians had never heard of him before this incident so the claim they hated him has no feet.

Like the claim that he was Putin's guru is just a media fantasy, there is not a single foto of them together.

Edit: Before this assassination Alexander Dugin had not gotten even a single mention by the Russian news agency Tass, he is just an old philosopher with no real influence.
Putin has quoted other philosophers like Ivan Ilyin with quotes from Ivan in his speeches but not Dugin.
CNN International now seems to be referring to him as an ideologue rather than a philosopher, which judging from dictionary definitions is a downgrade.

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Philosopher: A person engaged or learned in philosophy, especially as an academic discipline.
https://www.lexico.com/definition/philosopher

Ideologue: An adherent of an ideology, especially one who is uncompromising and dogmatic.
https://www.lexico.com/definition/ideologue
According to Wikipedia, his involvement in academe has been five years as head of the Department of Sociology of International Relations at Moscow State University, and having one of his books used in university courses on geopolitics including the Academy of the General Staff of the Russian military.

Was looking for info about him recently and found these two very different views: one from Michael Millerman, a Canadian academic of Russian descent who seems so impressed by Dugin (in the 2014 interview below, which seems to postdate an interview by Dugin saying (in relation to 41 anti-Maidan activists burned alive by far-right extremists in Odessa on 2 May 2014): "But what we see on May 2nd is beyond any limits. Kill them, kill them, kill them. There should not be any more conversations. As a professor, I consider it so." (Wikipedia)) that he has translated several of his books into English and (still) runs an online "masterclass" on Dugin's theories; the other from Edward Lucas, a "British writer and security specialist" who "has covered Central and Eastern European affairs since 1986" and written several books, including "The New Cold War: Putin's Russia and the Threat to the West" (Wikipedia).



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  #7286  
Old 24.08.2022, 18:50
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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lol, you don‘t need to send a batallion to Moscow to assasinate 1 guy. As if there aren‘t hundreds or thousands of ID documents/passports of dead russians lying in Ukraine. The Gouvernement is flush with cash as well to finance a mission.

He‘s a getable target, the method of attack was terroristic in nature, designed to scare the russian people. If they could get this celebrity, who could be next.

I hope they reap what they sow
Celebrity! LOL!

Do you believe everything you read in the #fake news media

Disappointed, I never classed you as so gullible.

Before the assassination, 99.9% of the Russians would have had no idea who he is.
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Old 24.08.2022, 19:11
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

If that radio tower was indeed taken down by a drone that managed hit one of its feet, it would signal a massive improvement in precision. Assassinatons might be close to trivial - obviously I'm not saying this one was done with a kamikaze drone, just that it might become much easier to do and very difficult to prevent even for better protected people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDhIjPn4UKc

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Old 24.08.2022, 21:01
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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If that radio tower was indeed taken down by a drone that managed hit one of its feet, it would signal a massive improvement in precision.
Assassinatons might be close to trivial - obviously I'm not saying this one was done with a kamikaze drone, just that it might become much easier to do and very difficult to prevent even for better protected people.
Actually, it has nothing to do with precision.
The drones have a real-time video camera and the operator can simply guide them to the desired target, here is an example.
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  #7289  
Old 24.08.2022, 21:16
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Actually, it has nothing to do with precision.
The drones have a real-time video camera and the operator can simply guide them to the desired target, here is an example.
That's the definition of a precision weapon
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  #7290  
Old 24.08.2022, 22:29
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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lol, you don‘t need to send a batallion to Moscow to assasinate 1 guy. As if there aren‘t hundreds or thousands of ID documents/passports of dead russians lying in Ukraine. The Gouvernement is flush with cash as well to finance a mission.

He‘s a getable target, the method of attack was terroristic in nature, designed to scare the russian people. If they could get this celebrity, who could be next.

I hope they reap what they sow
Well, this is proper terrorist car bombing:

1) Beirut 1983: 307 deaths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_B...racks_bombings

2) Oklahoma City 1995: 168 deaths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

If the purpose is to scare people, why limit yourself to only 1 death when car bombs can kill hundreds of even less protected people?

Car bombs for 1 people is just mafia/organized crime.
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  #7291  
Old 25.08.2022, 00:34
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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That's the definition of a precision weapon
I would describe it as a precision-guided weapon.
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Old 25.08.2022, 08:41
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Car bombs for 1 people is just mafia/organized crime.
Alfred Herrhausen (CEO Deutsche Bank) was assassinated in 1989 using a precision shape charge located in a bicycle his armoured car drove past. He was killed but the driver survived. It is still to this day considered a terrorist attack, although the crime has remained largely unsolved.

The sophistication/precision of the shape charge was considered beyond the capabilities of the red army faction suspected, only adding to the mystery.
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  #7293  
Old 25.08.2022, 08:57
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Well, this is proper terrorist car bombing:

1) Beirut 1983: 307 deaths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_B...racks_bombings

2) Oklahoma City 1995: 168 deaths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

If the purpose is to scare people, why limit yourself to only 1 death when car bombs can kill hundreds of even less protected people?

Car bombs for 1 people is just mafia/organized crime.
Because mass-murder might turn off the western $$ spigot??
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  #7294  
Old 25.08.2022, 11:29
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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lol, you don‘t need to send a batallion to Moscow to assasinate 1 guy. As if there aren‘t hundreds or thousands of ID documents/passports of dead russians lying in Ukraine. The Gouvernement is flush with cash as well to finance a mission.

He‘s a getable target, the method of attack was terroristic in nature, designed to scare the russian people. If they could get this celebrity, who could be next.

I hope they reap what they sow
They? Who?
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Old 25.08.2022, 11:57
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Because mass-murder might turn off the western $$ spigot??
So, a getable (no personal guards) target, however boring intellectual, presumably hated by Ukrainians, 500 km behind enemy lines, with the terrorist goal of scaring Russians, but not killing that much people because the Western weapon delivery stops

VS

typical crime syndicate internal power struggle.

Don't know, considering Crimea and a nuclear power plant are the war front, how does the life of boring intellectual changes the evolution of the war?

Not saying that Ukrainians are angels, but even demons focus their time on interesting stuff.
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  #7296  
Old 25.08.2022, 13:44
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Alfred Herrhausen (CEO Deutsche Bank) was assassinated in 1989 using a precision shape charge located in a bicycle his armoured car drove past. He was killed but the driver survived. It is still to this day considered a terrorist attack, although the crime has remained largely unsolved.

The sophistication/precision of the shape charge was considered beyond the capabilities of the red army faction suspected, only adding to the mystery.
After the Berlin Wall came down, it was discovered that the Stasi had hidden many RAF members in plain sight in East-Germany, under false names:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rote_A...ite_Generation

(Actually, even before the wall came down, there were reports from people who had fled the GDR and who identified individuals depicted on "wanted posters" as their former neighbors... it turns out that the Stasi had to ask some of them to keep their mouths shut because they were too enthusiastic about Socialism in public...)

The Stasi not only gave them jobs, cars and apartments - they even "found" husbands or wives for some of them - it was a complete package...

As the wikipedia article says, whether they received additional training in the GDR to facilitate more sophisticated assassinations is still subject to research.

There's a Netflix Special about the murder of Mr. Rohwedder, which is also worth watching.

The take-away from all this is that "assassinations" have become a very murky business and that the lines between fanatics, private contractors and state-sponsored attacks have become really, really blurred in the last 20-30 years.

As President Trump once famously rebuffed a journalist when challenged if we would call Putin a killer: "There are many killers."
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Old 25.08.2022, 20:15
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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That's the definition of a precision weapon
Precisely!
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Actually, it has nothing to do with precision.
The drones have a real-time video camera and the operator can simply guide them to the desired target, here is an example.
In the real world precision is everything. How exactly do you expect to hit and destroy a tank unless you have sufficient precision?

The last seconds of your clip even show what happens otherwise, the drone misses the machine gun position by meters. Even if the gunner may have got hurt (not too likely) the machinegun itself will still work fine.

Insufficient precision is the reason for hitting a large tank and missing something significantly smaller, instead of hitting both.

Thanks for making my case
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Old 26.08.2022, 09:04
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Strictly they should be called accuracy weapons.

"The value of PI is 5.1231231246734985739857348549" is very precise. But not very accurate.
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Old 26.08.2022, 09:16
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Guys, honestly I don't believe that "the who" behind the assassination matters that much, because in every case it's a win-win situation:

- If Ukrainians. Good, because they are making the bitches at the Kremlin finally directly uncomfortable (to put it euphemistically )

- If Russians. Even better, because that means some of them are waking up finally. And of course the bitches at the Kremlin receive even higher "discomfort".

Last edited by Excad; 26.08.2022 at 09:28.
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Old 26.08.2022, 09:20
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Guys, honestly I don't believe that "the who" behind the assassination matters that much, because in every case it's a win-win situation:

- If Ukrainians. Good, because they are making the bitches at the Kremlin finally directly uncomfortable (to put it euphemistically )

- If Russians. Even better, because that means some of them are waking up finally. And of course the bitches at the Kremlin recieve even higher "discomfort".
It's not a win-win if the Russians did it as an excuse to wage even worse warfare and commit further levels of atrocities on the Ukranians.
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