Meantime in Kharkov..according to BBC
and
https://kyivindependent.com/news-fee...kharkiv-oblast

Russian social media is full of claims that once the annexation is completed then Russia will launch a massive and overwhelming assault on Ukraine.

This ignores the reality that if they had such an assault capability they would have done it long ago instead of suffering and accepting the major and embarrassing losses of the last month.

The only possibility left to Putin is a general mobilisation but that would be foolhardy after the multiple public failures of the partial one. Anyway, it is clear that Russia is not capable of taking advantage of a general mobilisation since they do not have the necessary training resources, sufficient military equipment availble and the efficient logistics to keep such a large group supplied.

I exclude nuclear as this topic is beaten to death in another EF thread, anyway that would be suicide, not a successful escalation..

Well, as I currently live on the island of Bornholm for a large part of the year where the attacks took place (have a coastal property on the East coast) - I think you will find my horizon is a little wider than either what you watch in Spooks (never seen it), and more actual than what you read in the Daily Mail….

Also the Norwegen pipelines pass through Danish waters, so we are pretty much up-to-date without turning to BBC soaps

It's difficult to complete an annexation while annexed territory is being reduced on hourly basis from several directions.

The Russian masterminds are now ganging up on their own generals, I am sure removing experienced military minds will improve the situation

in fairness to putin, does anyone really believe that the west actually cares about ukraine - their people or their culture?

obviously russia is no better but id hedge a bet that the west would more likely flood ukraine with their standard lgbt + multikulti propoganda rather than actually value their nation or their "self-determination"

Ask the Ukrainians.

I think they care enough to help Ukraine resist in this war despite Putin's threats to use nuclear weapons etc.
When Ru attacked Ua many people on EF were terrified and were talking about the dangers of antagonising Ru just by providing support to Ua.
7 months later the West still supports Ua despite the internal pressures coming from the more "anxious" segment of the population. (or the more gullible ones who believe Kremlin's narrative)

I cannot reply for all the west, but I can reply form me: "yes"
btw, trying to take debate down to some ridiculous level only tells that you are trying to troll us.

Judging by the amount of help (i.e. by the only reasonable measure) that's only the USA and UK who "care enough". Why they help might be another reason altogether. By the same neutral measure many of the wealthy Western countries don't.

like the ones that just voted to join russia?

i do speak to them though. and i can completely understand many ukrainians hostility towards russification although i disagree with them about their 'sovereignty' as i believe their nationalism is accepted due to practicality rather than principle.

Fact free

Don't be mean, people do as best they are able

Exhibit dismaying stupidity and expect “fairness” - sure, that’s the way we do stuff in Russia. Putin’s respect for the Ukraine, its people and their culture has really been uplifting of late….

Again: colonialism 101 - first you overrun and secure the territory in question, kill off the majority of natives and after a few years, invite the overawed survivors to vote for whatever. It is not a terribly clever move to hold questionable referenda when at best you’re holding on/beating a retreat…

well i did write "obviously russia is no better".
if people want to argue that the west is the lesser of two evils then i would consider it an arguable position - but anyone who believes ukraine would keep their sovereignty if they were to join the EU or NATO as zelensky is currently begging for is either shortsighted or dishonest.

your sentence should be "obviously Russia is many levels worse"
the state of Russia is such that no one wants to be too close to them. Not other Slavic countries and not central Asian one. Everyone who can, is moving away.
Putin miserably fail to change Russia into a modern state that could be competitive in international arena and at some points Russians should accept that it is their own failure. Or they will become some miserable state, dreaming of their former glory and making theories how they are victims of some globo-homo conspiracies. Like Serbia.*
*maybe I should write this also in the other thread about Vucic, but frankly, why loosing to much time with people who insist on the path of self-destruction they have chosen for themselves?

Getting more difficult.

Russians have abandoned Torskoye and Terne, and the right bank of the Zherebets River.
Ukraine is shelling Kremennaya in the Luhansk Oblast and possibly also shelling Svatovo

You can argue till the cows come home - none in “the West” are paragons of virtue but it’s Russia that invaded the Ukraine and miscalculated badly. If they had presented a fait accompli like 2014, it might have worked. Too bad quite a few people/countries were better prepared this time.

So, yes, “the West” is the lesser evil. EU or NATO membership is unrealistic but to turn your useless question around, do you believe the Ukraine would keep any form of “sovereignty” after Russia has had its very own evil way with it?

Quite the contrary, the smaller the territory the simpler.
Gotta go with the flow, just like Putin, he's adjusted his aims multiple times

well we can disagree about it but i believe russia did what they had to do from a purely military point of view. and yes, mistakes were made but they have now annexed a large part of ukraine and taken full control of the sea of azov - and the war is far from over.

no i dont. but i also dont agree with talk about ukraines "self-determination" or their "sovereignty" whilst their president is begging to join EU and NATO.