Urs, morals doesn't equal religion. You are willingly mistaking morals for religion.

The state is separated from religion but not from morals. I am sorry, I cannot let you get away with this nonsense.

It's obviously a cultural difference. Switzerland prides itself on it's direct democracy.

It's the people directly who have decided how to act in relation to other countries in need.


UrsMax thinks it doesn't. He wrote that. I was replying to him.

I was thinking this may have been the case. Many of Switzerland's key tunnels and bridges have or had imbedded explosives, but I believe there is a schedule to remove all these (the Gotthard tunnel was "disarmed" after the fire of 2002).

Apparently, about 700.000 Russians (I suppose mostly men in the best ages) have left Russia since mobilization has been announced. Forbes quotes sources in the presidential administration.

https://www.forbes.ru/society/478827...00-000-grazdan

700.000 Russians have left Russia, but how many have entered Russia since mobilization has been announced? There is a flow of people in both directions. Kazakh authorities claim that 200K Russians entered and 147K left Kazakhstan since September 21.

The full quote, refugees may have left Kazakhstan through the South border.

https://www.rferl.org/a/kazakhstan-2.../32064860.html

If a secular state is not doing something for non-moral reasons, then could we assume that it's either a financial decision or to protect it's people?

Many decisions before and during war are made for financial reasons but I think it would be wrong to assume that those were the only reasons. People have, and are dying for what they believe is a greater good.

NYT (paywall): Russians Fleeing the Draft Find an Unlikely Haven

I don't know where did he want to go with this discussion and frankly I am not interested anymore (there are some people trolling this thread with much gusto and they are persistent and aggressive), but to this answer

he replied what we've seen he replied.
He could have simply answered that invading Ukraine was morally wrong. But noooo, he doubled down when called out....with UM you go places!!!!
Reminds me of the militantism of a certain mod who used to have some "sparring partners" here and now they're back.

so the west, headed by america, believes its morally wrong for russia to invade ukraine?

let me know when they are ready to give their land back to the native americans. or when they are ready to stop supporting israel and their illegal settlements in palestine

On average yes. Anyway, there's freedom of thought and people have different opinions.

That means you're not familiar with la Reconquista, fought with one newborn at a time that will grow up bilingual

Once again freedom of thought. Some people support Israel, others don't. But, let's remember Putin's take on Israel directly from kremlin.ru website:

On a second thought, people in Palestine should worry....Putin has funny ideas about protecting Russian speakers

Or one of Putin's predecessors with similar low values on Ukrainian lives who starved millions of Ukraine's population to death in 1932-33.

From a Russian POV, I’d hesitate to promote this idea. Regarding the USA: at best/worst we’d have the 13 original colonies as “South Canada” after they finally paid their UK taxes instead of trying to make tea with salt water. Essentially, I agree - chuck them out, rap music sucks
Regarding Russia however, “from small beginnings etc.” would mean dropping an awful lot of territory depending upon the cut-off date - 1300, 1552, 1711…?
Do you need a link? Both countries are unrepentant colonialists who deny it

Yeah, everyone is equally bad, there's no white and black in anything, especially in this war, so let's Russia do whatever they like.

I like it when moral relativism becomes such a good (trolling) tool for manipulating people.


At this moment it looks like Ukraine will beat the shit out of Russia. Deal with it.

The smiley doesn't help.

I think America has done a lot of wrong, and far more recently than your example.
But that doesn't mean Russia gets a free pass to invade. Pointing at someone else after you've done something wrong and crying like a schoolkid "They did it as well" doesn't make your screw up any more morally right.

Is this a reply to my post above

Probably just as soon as Russia gives their land to their indigenous peoples.

Simply a black comedy if there were not so many deaths.

Your imagination is running wild, the only one mentioning religion is you. Those who pay attention would realise that you're repeating what I'm saying with my first sentence in your quote, that's why laws are informed by the generally accepted morals.

Some forms of murder are in fact legal, cue self-defense. Others are actually wanted, cue war.

The nonsense is actually your narrowminded post. That aside, you can always simply ignore what you don't like.

Right....

OK, keep doing whatever you're doing here but don't get that surprised when people react to all this BS. You had a long explanation to a very easy question, "explanation" that tried to distract people from pointing a finger when it's right to do so.

Everybody knows how this war had began and what were the explanations offered by Kremlin and how did it all went in the end, about Bucha and all the other communal graves and how this war goes on in general, which are the means used by the so-called "liberator".

And you kept arguing that right or wrong is debatable here.

You can be Swiss, Pakistani or Tunisian. To me, what you wrote is plain wrong and Tom123 called you out on that, even if he also used an unnecessary ad hominem. (typical for some folks from UK)
Someone here tried to be offended by Tom123's "sanctimonious" formulations only now, otherwise he gladly partakes in one, if it fits.
There.