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Axa · #**7941** 11.10.2022, 16:14

Putin making friends:

	Quote:
	A building housing Samsung Electronics Co.'s Ukraine operation was damaged following Russia's missile attack on Kyiv on Monday, officials said. Earlier in the day, Russia shelled several cities in Ukraine, including Kyiv, leaving at least five dead in the capital city alone, according to news reports. An official from Samsung Electronics confirmed that some of the building's windows were shattered following the attack, although a missile did not directly hit the location but landed some 150 meters away. "We have confirmed that no casualties were reported from our local (Ukraine) branch," the official said. An official from South Korea's foreign ministry added no casualties of Korean nationals were reported from Monday's attack.

https://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20221010000153

komsomolez · #**7942** 11.10.2022, 16:28

	Quote:	NotAllThere
	From The Times

Great. Shoigu is Tuvan, maybe it was his idea.

There is also a video going viral on Twitter that shows the "governor of DNR" saying that Ukrainians are "Russian people possessed by the Devil". He says they don't want to kill them, but have to re-educate them. If they refuse, they will be killed, 1 million, 5 million, all of them.

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/s...20810751324160

Russia is a psychotic and genocidal place.

PS: To clarify, this lunatic is apparently a self declared governor and holds no, ahem, "official" position in the "DNR"

greenmount · #**7943** 12.10.2022, 08:32

	Quote:	komsomolez
	Great. Shoigu is Tuvan, maybe it was his idea. There is also a video going viral on Twitter that shows the "governor of DNR" saying that Ukrainians are "Russian people possessed by the Devil". He says they don't want to kill them, but have to re-educate them. If they refuse, they will be killed, 1 million, 5 million, all of them. https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/s...20810751324160

The self-proclaimed DNR's governor's all words as per this short film:

	Quote:
	"It's very important for us to create an image of the enemy that will be reality-based: these are Russian people, possessed by the devil. We are coming to convince them, not to kill them. But if you don't want us to change your minds, then we will kill you, we will kill as many of you as we have to. We will kill 1 million or 5 millions, we can exterminate all of you until you understand that you are possessed and you have to be cured. Zelensky is the most possessed one there, he is really the devil's spawn. He is Hitler 2.0 with his rabid nationalism, with that rabid Russophobia, with images of a woman cutting a throat. They are bloody possessed Satanists from the standpoint of the Christian thought. From the secular point of view these are anti-system liberal consumers, stupid people, who can't figure out what's happening."

I suppose it's just Stalinism reloaded. Minus the religious part...

marton · #**7944** 12.10.2022, 10:23

	Quote:	Axa
	Directly from Russia. Wait a min, explosives imported by a company in Crimea?

But everybody knows the partisans are buying their explosives from Russian soldiers.

So where did these partisans buy their Spiderman suits to install their explosives, we need to know?

Axa · #**7945** 12.10.2022, 10:29

	Quote:	marton
	But everybody knows the partisans are buying their explosives from Russian soldiers. So where did these partisans buy their Spiderman suits to install their explosives, we need to know?

Sorry, deleted the post, there's a more interesting one (below)

Ato · #**7946** 12.10.2022, 10:30

	Quote:	marton
	But everybody knows the partisans are buying their explosives from Russian soldiers. So where did these partisans buy their Spiderman suits to install their explosives, we need to know?

You'd be better off in a Hi Vis and a construction helmet. Add flashing orange lights to your truck for bonus points.

Axa · #**7947** 12.10.2022, 10:37

Russian investigators are top. 4 days after the explosion, even the English translation of press release is ready. The presumed logistics moving around 22 tons of cargo in pallets was investigated in 4 long days: Ukraine -> Bulgaria -> Georgia -> Armenia -> Krasnodar (RU) -> Crimean Bridge.

It's interesting that Ukrainians are not using long distance artillery rockets from USA, but the highly sophisticated technique of "driving across the Russian border".

This doesn't look good, Russian border is permeable for guys in military age leaving and explosives entering.

	Quote:
	MOSCOW, October 12. /TASS/. The Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) has uncovered that the mastermind behind the terrorist attack on the Crimean Bridge was the head of Ukraine's military intelligence service, Kirill Budanov, and the explosives were delivered from Odessa via Bulgaria, Georgia and Armenia, the FSB’s Center for Public Relations told TASS on Wednesday. "The Federal Security Service, together with the Investigative Committee, established that the organizer of the terrorist attack on the Crimean Bridge was the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ukrainian Defense Ministry, its head Kirill Budanov, employees and agents," the Center for Public Relations reported. As the FSB noted, citing operational information, the explosive device was disguised in rolls of construction polyethylene wraps on 22 pallets with a total weight of 22,770 kg. It was shipped from the seaport of Odessa to the Bulgarian city of Ruse in early August. The shipment was arranged through a contract dated August 2, 2022, between Translogistics UA LLC (Kiev) and Baltex Capital S.A. (Ruse). "Ukrainian citizens Mikhail Vladimirovich Tsyurkalo, 47, Denis Olegovich Kovach, 43, Roman Ivanovich Solomko, 51, as well as Georgian citizens Sandro Inosaridze, a broker named Levan and an Armenian citizen Artur Terchanyan, 37, were involved in the transport of the cargo from Bulgaria to the port of Poti (Georgia), and then to Armenia," the FSB noted. Between September 29 and October 3, the cargo went through customs in Yerevan at the Transalliance terminal in accordance with the EAEU rules, the old documents were replaced with new ones, where the consignor was GU ARJ Group Ltd (Republic of Armenia, Alaverdi) and the consignee was Lider Ltd (Moscow). Afterwards, on October 4, the cargo on a DAF truck registered in Georgia passed through the Russian-Georgian border at the Upper Lars border crossing point and on October 6, the cargo was delivered and unloaded at the Armavir wholesale base in the Krasnodar Region. On October 7, with assistance of Solomko, Ukrainian citizen Vladimir Vasilyevich Zlob, 35, and five other identified Russian citizens altered the documents of the cargo again, this time, the consignor was named LLC TEK-34 (Ulyanovsk), and the consignee was a non-existent firm in the Republic of Crimea. On the same day, the pallets were loaded into the truck of Russian citizen Mahir Yusubov, 51, who left for Simferopol, and on October 8 at 06:03 Moscow time an explosion was carried out while he was driving over the Crimean Bridge.

https://tass.com/politics/1521333

MidfieldGeneral · #**7948** 12.10.2022, 10:53

	Quote:	Axa
	Russian investigators are top. 4 days after the explosion, even the English translation of press release is ready. The presumed logistics moving around 22 tons of cargo in pallets was investigated in 4 long days: Ukraine -> Bulgaria -> Georgia -> Armenia -> Krasnodar (RU) -> Crimean Bridge. It's interesting that Ukrainians are not using long distance artillery rockets from USA, but the highly sophisticated technique of "driving across the Russian border". This doesn't look good, Russian border is permeable for guys in military age leaving and explosives entering. https://tass.com/politics/1521333

the geography of this doesnt make any sense if you look at a map:

Ukraine -> Bulgaria -> Georgia -> Armenia -> Krasnodar (RU) -> Crimean Bridge.

Armenia is landlocked so explosives would have to pass through Turkey or Georgia or Iran or Azerbaijan unless the implication is that the explosives were flown from Armenia to Krasnodar?

nejc · #**7949** 12.10.2022, 11:30

	Quote:
	control over the movement of cargo ..... was carried out by an employee of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ukrainian Defense Ministry, who introduced himself as "Ivan Ivanovich".

Russians are really out of this word. They don't even bother to make a believable propaganda story. Like that someone with the name "John Doe" (Ivan Ivanovich) and moving a heavy secret cargo into Russia didn't raise the alarm of anyone on the way?
I find their propaganda system somehow like an Orwell test of loyalty:
"We tell the most stupid narrative, if you go with it, you are a loyal subject, otherwise, straight to Siberia!"

a Twitter thread about the truck carrying explosive

dandi · #**7950** 12.10.2022, 13:36

	Quote:	MidfieldGeneral
	the geography of this doesnt make any sense if you look at a map: Ukraine -> Bulgaria -> Georgia -> Armenia -> Krasnodar (RU) -> Crimean Bridge. Armenia is landlocked so explosives would have to pass through Turkey or Georgia or Iran or Azerbaijan...

If you read the report it actualy says first Armenia then passed onland through Georgia into Russia. The route (Bulgaria->Armenia->Georgia->Russia) makes sense, at least that'be one way I would do it :-) It would have to pass through Turkey, but that won't much be a problem if it's a sealed container for instance on route to Armenia

	Quote:	nejc
	Russians are really out of this word. They don't even bother to make a believable propaganda story. Like that someone with the name "John Doe" (Ivan Ivanovich) and moving a heavy secret cargo into Russia didn't raise the alarm of anyone on the way?

It doesn't say that Ivan Ivanovich was on the paperwork that was presented at the Russian border, just that this might have been a name on the chain on some of the other countries. The whole charade was to make the cargo entry into Russia look as a very credible shipment and probably all the names on that paperwork at the Russian border were rock solid

The whole story seems very plausible... and even if it isn't it, doesn't really matter, because it's obvious now that the Ukrainian secret services planted a large bomb on a truck coming from Russia.

One important question is whether this is terrorism - may sides say not, because:
1) The explosion happend on the part of the bridge that is in the (legally) territorial waters of Ukraine - as most of the world did not accept Russia's annexation of Crimea. The whole bridge is an illegality
2) The bridge is at the same time a military target and a civilian target. The military use can justify an attack

What still puzzles me though is how did they knew/timed the truck explosion with the passing of the fuel train. Either they were incredibly lucky or it was brilliantly planned - but in that case it was a suicide attack, as the truck driver that died must have been involved?

rainer_d · #**7951** 12.10.2022, 14:27

Drones as lookouts?

Maybe with a tip from a „concerned citizen“ (cough—cough NRO)?

nejc · #**7952** 12.10.2022, 15:51

	Quote:	dandi
	Bulgaria->Armenia->Georgia->Russia

Check the map please, you can only fly from Bulgaria to Armenia. Than check the supposed photos of the cargo on the Twiter link. Take also into the account that Armenia is supposed to be Russia's ally. No, you wouldn't do it this way.

	Quote:	dandi
	...The whole story seems very plausible...

maybe for a5 years old. Again, it is just another charade in a long chain of Russian's charades. Do you remember Ana Politkovska, Skripalo etc? The Russians reply was always like this: "here is the most idiotic explanation possible, we are saying it straight into your face just to show you, how you impotent you are.

But if you want to believe

who am I to change your mind.

greenmount · #**7953** 12.10.2022, 16:42

They don't need any real reason to attack another country so I'm not sure what's the Spiel here. Hope they won't attack Bulgaria!

dandi · #**7954** 12.10.2022, 18:03

	Quote:	nejc
	Take also into the account that Armenia is supposed to be Russia's ally. No, you wouldn't do it this way.

Well, precisely because Armenia is a Russian ally would make a shipment pass easier, if you can keep it clandestine enough. You can cross into Armenia from Turkey by land, you can see Turkey listed on the manifest in the Twitter thread... not that it means anything (the manifest in itself is a bit of a puzzle)

	Quote:
	maybe for a5 years old.... But if you want to believe who am I to change your mind.

I'm not saying I believe this story (BTW, the discrepancy between the photo of the truck with 2 rear axles on the tractor unit and the claimed scan of the truck at the bridge with one axle is hilarious). This particular story may be fake, the truck may be another truck that came from somewhere else, etc. It just sounds as plausible as any other story.

I was more reacting to your claim that this is russian "propaganda". Propaganda for what gain? I don't think anyone doubts Ukraine secret services did this, whether trough Armenia or China or the Moon or whatever. In the end it doesn't matter. Ukraine most likely blew up the bridge with a bomb on that white truck we see in the CCTV film. And they were IMHO well entitled to do it.

Or do you think it was someone else that did this?

dandi · #**7955** 12.10.2022, 18:19

	Quote:	rainer_d
	Drones as lookouts? Maybe with a tip from a „concerned citizen“ (cough—cough NRO)?

You mean to time the truck explosion with the train? They must have had that, both inside intel on the train movements - either some railway master in the region or and someone was scouting movements on that bridge for a while

What is difficult is timing the truck to arrive and explode at the correct time and place, even if you know when the train is passing. I suspect maybe the truck was able to stop and wait after passing the security check... or somehow fumbled around the security crossing waiting for the right time... still pretty difficult to pull out without raising suspicion. And if that's what how they did, I hope they had a remote control on the truck rather than make it a suicide mission...

Or they were extremely, extremely lucky with the timing

rainer_d · #**7956** 12.10.2022, 18:26

I do not think it's that difficult if you have the resources of a nation-state.

People seem to cheer to this macabre event - but the inconvenient truth is that with the pipeline-bombing and this bridge-bombing, any civil infrastructure is now a target.

If the war spreads, the economic damage alone will bomb us right back into 3rd-world status.

I'm reminded of Goebbels "Do you want total war?" speech.

NotAllThere · #**7957** 12.10.2022, 18:40

	Quote:	rainer_d
	but the inconvenient truth is that with the pipeline-bombing and this bridge-bombing, any civil infrastructure is now a target. .

Yeah. That's why the Soviets Russians have been bombing hospitals and playgrounds since February.

Civil infrastructture has been a target from the beginning.

vushka · #**7958** 12.10.2022, 18:51

	Quote:	NotAllThere
	Yeah. That's why the Soviets Russians have been bombing hospitals and playgrounds since February. Civil infrastructture has been a target from the beginning.

"Pointing at someone else after you've done something wrong and crying like a schoolkid "They did it as well" doesn't make your screw up any more morally right"

rainer_d · #**7959** 12.10.2022, 18:57

	Quote:	NotAllThere
	Yeah. That's why the Soviets Russians have been bombing hospitals and playgrounds since February. Civil infrastructture has been a target from the beginning.

With shells and rockets, yes.

Not by blowing them up directly.

If Putin caves in and gives back everything, I will be very surprised.

That may be a a noble cause and a desirable outcome. But the alternative is very, very much not desirable.

marton · #**7960** 12.10.2022, 19:43

	Quote:	vushka
	"Pointing at someone else after you've done something wrong and crying like a schoolkid "They did it as well" doesn't make your screw up any more morally right"

You have missed the point

The point was that "Russians have been bombing hospitals and playgrounds since February", they did not start after "the pipeline-bombing and this bridge-bombing".