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  #7961  
Old 12.10.2022, 19:55
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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You have missed the point

The point was that "Russians have been bombing hospitals and playgrounds since February", they did not start after "the pipeline-bombing and this bridge-bombing".
both sides have committed war crimes against each other since 2014 so its a moot point anyway.
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  #7962  
Old 12.10.2022, 19:57
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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With shells and rockets, yes.

Not by blowing them up directly.

If Putin caves in and gives back everything, I will be very surprised.

That may be a a noble cause and a desirable outcome. But the alternative is very, very much not desirable.
But Russia blew up the pipeline.
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  #7963  
Old 12.10.2022, 19:57
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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People seem to cheer to this macabre event - but the inconvenient truth is that with the pipeline-bombing and this bridge-bombing, any civil infrastructure is now a target.
yes, assuming people were to hold both sides to the same standards/rules.
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  #7964  
Old 12.10.2022, 20:00
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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both sides have committed war crimes against each other since 2014 so its a moot point anyway.
As you posted

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"Pointing at someone else after you've done something wrong and crying like a schoolkid "They did it as well" doesn't make your screw up any more morally right"
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  #7965  
Old 12.10.2022, 20:09
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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yes, assuming people were to hold both sides to the same standards/rules.
You are claiming it is OK for one side to ignore standards/rules.
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  #7966  
Old 12.10.2022, 20:32
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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You are claiming it is OK for one side to ignore standards/rules.
this is what I wrote:

as I said, such acts should either be condemned or condoned. it should not be dependent on which side committed it.
i thought i made it clear that i think ultimately such acts should be "condoned" as they are an unfortunate part of war.

its not that "interesting" nor difficult: the same rules should apply for both sides.
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  #7967  
Old 12.10.2022, 20:43
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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But Russia blew up the pipeline.
Sure about that? My money is either on Ukraine or the US, because when the winter bites and people start dying Germany may consider that Russia is closer than America and what better way to take away Plan B than to blow it up.
Also there is now a leak in Poland at the oil pipe from Russia to Germany. Warschau says it´s probably an accident.
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  #7968  
Old 12.10.2022, 21:03
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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But Russia blew up the pipeline.
Sure about that? My money is either on Ukraine or the US, because when the winter bites and people start dying Germany may consider that Russia is closer than America and what better way to take away Plan B than to blow it up.
Also there is now a leak in Poland at the oil pipe from Russia to Germany. Warschau says it´s probably an accident.
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  #7969  
Old 12.10.2022, 22:27
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Sure about that? My money is either on Ukraine or the US, because when the winter bites and people start dying Germany may consider that Russia is closer than America and what better way to take away Plan B than to blow it up.
Also there is now a leak in Poland at the oil pipe from Russia to Germany. Warschau says it´s probably an accident.
The German-Russian friendship has already done enough damage to Europe, we're all dependant on the Russian gas now and we (they) fed the Russian war machinery indirectly.

I don't know why would you like that again. We risk they start a war every 10 years, just because they can. My impression is, that with the exception of trolls of course, some people really don't get what's at stake here.
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  #7970  
Old 12.10.2022, 22:32
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Russian investigators are top. 4 days after the explosion, even the English translation of press release is ready. The presumed logistics moving around 22 tons of cargo in pallets was investigated in 4 long days: Ukraine -> Bulgaria -> Georgia -> Armenia -> Krasnodar (RU) -> Crimean Bridge.

It's interesting that Ukrainians are not using long distance artillery rockets from USA, but the highly sophisticated technique of "driving across the Russian border".

This doesn't look good, Russian border is permeable for guys in military age leaving and explosives entering.

https://tass.com/politics/1521333
For amusement, a video of the agents arresting the saboteurs including one intrepid agent unwrapping a homemade bomb without a bomb suit.

Russia's social media is buzzing tonight with claims of a major Ukraine force attacking over the Dnipro river, no idea if it is true or even where it is supposed to be happening, this is an extremely long river - hopefully in the South.
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  #7971  
Old 12.10.2022, 22:33
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

While Germany certainly has the biggest responsibility for the Nord Stream / Russian gas dependence disaster, I would like to remind everyone that it is not Germany alone.

Nord Stream partners: Uniper / EON / Winterhall (Germany), Engie (France), Shell / Gasunie (NL), OMV (Austria). All these companies had substantial support of their governments in this.
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  #7972  
Old 12.10.2022, 22:34
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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While Germany certainly has the biggest responsibility for the Nord Stream / Russian gas dependence disaster, I would like to remind everyone that it is not Germany alone.

Nord Stream partners: Uniper / EON / Winterhall (Germany), Engie (France), Shell / Gasunie (NL), OMV (Austria). All these companies had substantial support of their governments in this.
True.
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  #7973  
Old 12.10.2022, 23:00
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

UN GA vote on comdemning the Russian annexations of Ukrainian territory. Serbia sees the light. No surprises from India, China, Central Asia. Friends of Russia: 4 joke states.

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  #7974  
Old 12.10.2022, 23:31
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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UN GA vote on condemning the Russian annexations of Ukrainian territory. Serbia sees the light. No surprises from India, China, Central Asia. Friends of Russia: 4 joke states.
Good about Serbia.
The Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) is an intergovernmental military alliance in Eurasia consisting of six post-Soviet states: Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, and Tajikistan. Only Belarus and, of course, Russia from this group supported the annexation, the others abstained.

India and China abstained as expected, better than supporting.
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  #7975  
Old 12.10.2022, 23:45
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Or they were extremely, extremely lucky with the timing
Why would that be difficult if the driver is a suicide bomber, as claimed by Moscow? You know the train's scheduled departure time, so if you get the timing at least remotely right you get some version of what happened.

I'm not even sure if it wasn't relatively unlucky, the blast appears to have happened at almost the maximum distance between the two bridges. The two bridges have differing slopes, so once it starts to go up, the rail bridge is ever more distant from the road until the road bridge has caught up, that's the part at maximum height including the arches.

So, earlier or later might have been more destructive - perhaps the part with the arches is most vulnerable.
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  #7976  
Old 13.10.2022, 04:18
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Well, precisely because Armenia is a Russian ally
And this is total nonsense.
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  #7977  
Old 13.10.2022, 07:27
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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UN GA vote on comdemning the Russian annexations of Ukrainian territory. Serbia sees the light. No surprises from India, China, Central Asia. Friends of Russia: 4 joke states.
Serbia didn’t see the light? It has always officially criticized the sanctions (despite domestic russian support) while staying clear of sanctions.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/enl...ine-decrypted/

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  #7978  
Old 13.10.2022, 09:24
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Whats up with Eritrea ? They have links to Russia for aid or something ?
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  #7979  
Old 13.10.2022, 09:27
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

It was most likely Ukraine with Polish assistance (or vice versa). Definitely not any of the 5 Nordic countries or Germany. The previous day before the NS explosions, Poland CONVENIENTLY opened the Norway-Poland pipeline via Denmark, bypassing Germany.

Over the past years, Poland and Ukraine strongly opposed the development of Nord Stream 1 and 2, which gave Russian Gazprom a direct sub-sea route for supplying natural gas to Western European customers. At present, that gas has to pass through overland pipeline networks in Poland and Ukraine, bringing in valuable transit fees and providing both nations a measure of energy security.

All of this points to Poland, not Russia. Russia is more than happy to continue making money off of Europe. It was EUROPE'S idea to cancel Russia. Not Russia's. As far as Russia is concerned, why would they blow up their own expensive pipelines when they could just close the valves at its source in Viborg?

Remember also that the Polish government HATES both Russia AND Germany. Last month, Poland asked Germany for $1.3 TRILLION in World War II reparations.

Germany rejected Polish claim.

Three years ago, they wanted Germany to pay over $850 million in war reparations. The interest rates must be very high in Poland

Recently, the Polish PM called on Norway to share its "gigantic" oil and gas profits with Ukraine!!!

Norway, Sweden and most western European countries quickly rejected the Polish greedy demand


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Sure about that? My money is either on Ukraine or the US, because when the winter bites and people start dying Germany may consider that Russia is closer than America and what better way to take away Plan B than to blow it up.
Also there is now a leak in Poland at the oil pipe from Russia to Germany. Warschau says it´s probably an accident.
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  #7980  
Old 13.10.2022, 09:32
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

No, you cannot! There are no open border crossings between Turkey and Armenia. Armenia has open land border crossings only with Georgia and East Azerbaijan province (Iran).

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...You can cross into Armenia from Turkey by land...

Last edited by Linnéa UZH; 13.10.2022 at 09:49.
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