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  #8121  
Old 25.10.2022, 17:54
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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This shizzz is getting bipartisan
Calm down, they are now u-turning.

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Mark Pocan@MarkPocan

US House candidate, WI-02
Replying to @yoshikoherrera, @RepMarkPocan and @POTUS

Hear you.
First, this was written in July & I have no idea why it went out now. Bad timing.
Second, it was trying to get to a cease-fire & diplomacy as others were banging war drums, not criticizing Biden.
Third, I’ve supported the efforts & will continue.
Over analyzed by some.
4:53 AM · Oct 25, 2022
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  #8122  
Old 25.10.2022, 18:42
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?


so bipartisan agreement that the wapo and rest is fake news media
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  #8123  
Old 25.10.2022, 18:50
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Either way, this is incredibly unprofessional.
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  #8124  
Old 25.10.2022, 19:09
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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It is. And what a fine list of people. But same in Europe, right? It is both the far-right and the far-left that seem ready to offer concessions to Russia.
Romanian Defense Chief Quits After Controversial Ukraine Remarks
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...kraine-remarks
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  #8125  
Old 25.10.2022, 19:18
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Romanian Defense Chief Quits After Controversial Ukraine Remarks
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...kraine-remarks
Nothing is stopping Romania from offering an exclave to Russia and end the war

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Romanian Defense Minister Vasile Dincu resigned after making public statements implying that Ukraine may have to cede territory to Russia as part of potential talks aimed at ending the war.
Bloomberg article available on yahoo https://news.yahoo.com/romanian-defe...092841007.html
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  #8126  
Old 25.10.2022, 20:15
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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so bipartisan agreement that the wapo and rest is fake news media
Do I really have to simplify this for you?

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US Rep. Pramila Jayapal has withdrawn a controversial letter she issued on Ukraine diplomacy after the fallout from members of her Congressional Progressive Caucus, who said it was drafted months ago but sent this week without their knowing.
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  #8127  
Old 25.10.2022, 23:45
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Russia’s ‘Dirty Bomb’ Ploy

By groundlessly suggesting that Ukraine is preparing to use a “dirty bomb,” the Kremlin is testing the West—and potentially provoking a nuclear standoff.

By Tom Nichols

https://www.theatlantic.com/newslett...campaign=share
The elephant in this room is the Russian failure to explain how using a dirty bomb would benefit Ukraine. There is no military or political benefit, in fact, completely the opposite. This is a story with no logical basis.
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  #8128  
Old 26.10.2022, 00:03
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The elephant in this room is the Russian failure to explain how using a dirty bomb would benefit Ukraine. There is no military or political benefit, in fact, completely the opposite. This is a story with no logical basis.
except for the most obvious one…..explode a dirty bomb, blame it on Russia and finally get western boots on the ground. It is their only chance really. Russia has to be occupied and defeated before it will surrender all lands including Crimea, much less pay reparations
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  #8129  
Old 26.10.2022, 00:07
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Do I really have to simplify this for you?
and the guy you linked to was blaming the wapo for publishing the letter…..

In any case, the calls for negotiations are getting louder and louder. It has to start somewhere. You can only keep a beach ball submerged for a finite time
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  #8130  
Old 26.10.2022, 06:25
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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except for the most obvious one…..explode a dirty bomb, blame it on Russia and finally get western boots on the ground. It is their only chance really.
The fact we have this kind of pro-Russian trolling crap on this forum every day is shameful and a poor reflection on the moderation of posts here. It is a return to the kind of hateful poison-posting that got the forum shut down.

Last edited by Chuff; 26.10.2022 at 07:35. Reason: Typo
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  #8131  
Old 26.10.2022, 07:25
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Russia is accusing Ukraine of maybe using a "dirty bomb". Ukraine denies that. So could Russia be trying to prepare the ground as an excuse to use an Atom bomb? Russia is fully capable of every dirty trick.
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  #8132  
Old 26.10.2022, 07:33
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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In any case, the calls for negotiations are getting louder and louder. It has to start somewhere. You can only keep a beach ball submerged for a finite time
From where? Selective tweets or the “quality” journos at somewhere like the NY Post? Doesn’t seem to be to much appetite for cowing to Putin among the adults in the real world.
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  #8133  
Old 26.10.2022, 08:26
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

i am pro-ukraine but i am also pro-reality.
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  #8134  
Old 26.10.2022, 09:18
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

And negotiate on what? Russia has not offered anything. In fact, they have doubled down with the annexations. Ukraine is making progress on the ground. They are not willing to make concessions. They have even pulled their previous offer to go back to pre-24Feb lines. After the annexations, Russia can also not go back to pre 24Feb

So what negotiations could there be by the West? Unless you are suggesting to press Ukraine into accepting territorial losses in Donbas and South.
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  #8135  
Old 26.10.2022, 10:34
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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except for the most obvious one…..explode a dirty bomb, blame it on Russia and finally get western boots on the ground. It is their only chance really. Russia has to be occupied and defeated before it will surrender all lands including Crimea, much less pay reparations
It is not their "only chance", they are currently doing extremely well against Russia.

The dirty bomb fiction is really a stupid idea, you really believe Ukraine would explode such on their own territory making a large area a noman's land plus killing and wounding many of their own people? How would any government survive this? A stupid black fantasy.
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Old 26.10.2022, 12:14
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?



The picture used by MFA Russia in its twit about the dirty bomb is more than 10 years old and it belongs to ARAO, Slovenian organisation specialising in the management of radioactive waste. The picture was already abused for some fake news in the past.

The level of propaganda on this is really low, they didn't even care about obvious language differences on the big yellow warning signs. The only proof here is: anyone who is following official Russian narrative doesn't care about facts.
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Old 26.10.2022, 12:18
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The picture used by MFA Russia in its twit about the dirty bomb is more than 10 years old and it belongs to ARAO, Slovenian organisation specialising in the management of radioactive waste. The picture was already abused for some fake news in the past.

The level of propaganda on this is really low, they didn't even care about obvious language differences on the big yellow warning signs. The only proof here is: anyone who is following official Russian narrative doesn't care about facts.
Yes. The military underperformance is one thing, but what really surprised me was how bad RU propaganda was. After all the noise about interference in US politics etc. I was expecting some sophisticated stuff from Russia - but even basic things such as the counting of the votes in the referenda were badly messed up: Russian news reported on the voting and counting to legitimise the annexations, but filmed vote counters counting voting ballots without even looking at the votes on them and the voting papers themselves were often blank and missing the vote that was counted. Another cock-up was when IEA inspectors came to look at the nuclear plant and RU pointed out the shells that landed there and they claimed came from Ukrainian forces. Awkward mumbling when they asked why they landed pointing towards UA lines (as if fired from RU lines).
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Old 26.10.2022, 12:42
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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It is not their "only chance", they are currently doing extremely well against Russia.

The dirty bomb fiction is really a stupid idea, you really believe Ukraine would explode such on their own territory making a large area a noman's land plus killing and wounding many of their own people? How would any government survive this? A stupid black fantasy.
You asked a theoretical question and I gave a theoretical answer. I personally think most likely a bomb would be detonated by Russia.

But to say the alternative is impossible is also going too far. I personally think they view lives as more expandable than in the west and if a few villagers (likely russian) die then I could imagine it.
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  #8139  
Old 26.10.2022, 12:50
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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...how bad RU propaganda was...
Well, whether it's good or bad it depends a lot on the target audience - and the intended effect. I don't think "they" (if there is such a thing) are even trying to construct something that can be reasoned with, it's just throwing enough s**t around, some of it will stick somewhere with some people. It doesn't help that media is just echoing around the same crap just to fill in their empty page slots

And to be fair you see the same tactics in western politics, whether it is (mostly) on the far right or far left...
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Old 26.10.2022, 14:00
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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After the annexations, Russia can also not go back to pre 24Feb
I guess Russia could, just not Putin.
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I personally think they view lives as more expandable than in the west and if a few villagers (likely russian) die then I could imagine it.
This approach is a necessity in war, though of course the shades of grey are a sliding scale.

Apparently (see post #7447) Russia registered 50k dead soldiers before the end of August. Many more will have been maimed, wounded, or gone missing. UA won't have fared much better, if at all, plus many civilians were killed.

Whether in the west or east, that makes killing some of "them" to save a few or many of "us" a very attractive idea.
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