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Axa · #**8141** 26.10.2022, 14:27

Slowly, then suddenly

	Quote:
	German president takes cover in air raid shelter on Ukraine trip German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier was forced to take cover in an air raid shelter Tuesday, October 25, during his first visit to Ukraine since Russia's invasion. The trip came six months after the president, then under heavy criticism for his years-long detente policy with Moscow, was snubbed by Kyiv. After arriving in the capital, he headed to the northern town of Koriukivka – but was forced to take cover when sirens went off. "We spent the first hour and a half in an air raid shelter," he said. "That really impressed upon us the conditions in which people here are living." In the months after Russia invaded Ukraine, Mr. Steinmeier, a former foreign minister, was heavily criticized over his years-long rapprochement towards Moscow, which he has since admitted was a mistake. His offer to visit Kyiv in April was snubbed, sparking tension between the two countries. Mr. Steinmeier, a Social Democrat serving his second stint as German president, was a foreign minister in two of former chancellor Angela Merkel's governments. He has been a leading advocate of the "Wandel durch Handel" (Change through Trade) concept, which argues that fostering close commercial ties can help spur democratic reforms. He also championed the controversial Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline between Russia and Germany, which has now been halted over Moscow's aggression in Ukraine. But he has since admitted that his detente approach towards President Vladimir Putin had been misguided, and that there could be "no return to normal with Putin's Russia".

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/europe/art...01660_143.html

kiwiguy08 · #**8142** 26.10.2022, 16:22

	Quote:	komsomolez
	And negotiate on what? Russia has not offered anything. In fact, they have doubled down with the annexations. Ukraine is making progress on the ground. They are not willing to make concessions. They have even pulled their previous offer to go back to pre-24Feb lines. After the annexations, Russia can also not go back to pre 24Feb So what negotiations could there be by the West? Unless you are suggesting to press Ukraine into accepting territorial losses in Donbas and South.

What is the ceiling on that progress? Do you think they will go all the way to Crimea? Or will it end up soon in a very bloody stalemate?

It was possible that the annexation would not have happened had an earlier peace deal not been sabotaged by GB. (likely with DC in the background) Now a peace deal is tougher but not impossible. Unfortunately, there are third parties that absolutely go livid at any mention of a peace treaty that doesn’t include full territory restoration, reparations, a coup in Moscow and perhaps even a break up of the Russian state into smaller entities

bossybaby · #**8143** 26.10.2022, 17:08

	Quote:	kiwiguy08
	...full territory restoration, reparations, a coup in Moscow and perhaps even a break up of the Russian state into smaller entities

Now that's a start.

marton · #**8144** 26.10.2022, 17:18

	Quote:	kiwiguy08
	What is the ceiling on that progress? Do you think they will go all the way to Crimea? Or will it end up soon in a very bloody stalemate? It was possible that the annexation would not have happened had an earlier peace deal not been sabotaged by GB. (likely with DC in the background) Now a peace deal is tougher but not impossible. Unfortunately, there are third parties that absolutely go livid at any mention of a peace treaty that doesn’t include full territory restoration, reparations, a coup in Moscow and perhaps even a break up of the Russian state into smaller entities

You keep copy-pasting this Russian propaganda which actually does not help anyone.

There was never any possibility Ukraine would sign a peace deal in April when Russia still occupied a large part of their country, especially after the publicity of the Bucha war crimes.

kiwiguy08 · #**8145** 26.10.2022, 17:26

	Quote:	Chuff
	The fact we have this kind of pro-Russian trolling crap on this forum every day is shameful and a poor reflection on the moderation of posts here. It is a return to the kind of hateful poison-posting that got the forum shut down.

You might not be the dumbest person in the world, but you damn better home he doesn’t die

marton · #**8146** 26.10.2022, 17:34

	Quote:	kiwiguy08
	You might not be the dumbest person in the world, but you damn better home he doesn’t die

We not only hope the dumbest person in the world does not die but, in addition, we wish you the best of health.

LtSoftDrink · #**8147** 26.10.2022, 17:41

	Quote:	Chuff
	The fact we have this kind of pro-Russian trolling crap on this forum every day is shameful and a poor reflection on the moderation of posts here. It is a return to the kind of hateful poison-posting that got the forum shut down.

While I do agree that the moderation on this thread is questionable - I also ask myself why other posters using less strong language as you are wont to, have their “contributions” deleted and yours continue to stand.

Chuff · #**8148** 26.10.2022, 17:48

	Quote:	LtSoftDrink
	While I do agree that the moderation on this thread is questionable - I also ask myself why other posters using less strong language as you are wont to, have their “contributions” deleted and yours continue to stand.

Where do I engage in anti-science such as covid denial or anti-vaxx? Where do I spout fringe right-wing anti-democratic politics and lies about stolen elections? Where do I repeat false Russian propaganda that we know to be blatant lies?

Sure I call people out and sometimes write things that are personal attacks (and in most cases I mean every word), but those are two very, very different things and EF did not get shut down for calling someone a ****. EF got shut down and the mods replaced for allowing an environment with lots of bat-**** crazy posting from the likes of kiwiguy, vushka etc who after a brief lull are continuing to do the same kinds of things.

LtSoftDrink · #**8149** 26.10.2022, 18:15

	Quote:	Chuff
	Where do I engage in anti-science such as covid denial or anti-vaxx? Where do I spout fringe right-wing anti-democratic politics and lies about stolen elections? Where do I repeat false Russian propaganda that we know to be blatant lies? Sure I call people out and sometimes write things that are personal attacks (and in most cases I mean every word), but those are two very, very different things and EF did not get shut down for calling someone a **. EF got shut down and the mods replaced for allowing an environment with lots of bat-** crazy posting from the likes of kiwiguy, vushka etc who after a brief lull are continuing to do the same kinds of things.

Part of the problem might be your reckoning that anybody who is, well, let’s just say slightly opposed to very strongly held beliefs of your own good self is certifiably insane and probably includes involvement with excrement of flying mammals. This is not necessarily the case.

Nice, your edited post adds a bit of reason to the first version. I won’t try to go into the newly introduced bits about COVID and US-elections…. That might be considered off-topic

komsomolez · #**8150** 26.10.2022, 19:16

	Quote:	kiwiguy08
	What is the ceiling on that progress? Do you think they will go all the way to Crimea? Or will it end up soon in a very bloody stalemate? It was possible that the annexation would not have happened had an earlier peace deal not been sabotaged by GB. (likely with DC in the background) Now a peace deal is tougher but not impossible. Unfortunately, there are third parties that absolutely go livid at any mention of a peace treaty that doesn’t include full territory restoration, reparations, a coup in Moscow and perhaps even a break up of the Russian state into smaller entities

What earlier peace deal - that Ukraine was ready to accept - was sabotaged by the UK/US?

marton · #**8151** 26.10.2022, 19:28

	Quote:	LtSoftDrink
	Part of the problem might be your reckoning that anybody who is, well, let’s just say slightly opposed to very strongly held beliefs of your own good self is certifiably insane and probably includes involvement with excrement of flying mammals. This is not necessarily the case. Nice, your edited post adds a bit of reason to the first version. I won’t try to go into the newly introduced bits about COVID and US-elections…. That might be considered off-topic

Do you consider the following is "on-topic"?

	Quote:	LtSoftDrink
	While I do agree that the moderation on this thread is questionable - I also ask myself why other posters using less strong language as you are wont to, have their “contributions” deleted and yours continue to stand.

marton · #**8152** 26.10.2022, 19:32

	Quote:	komsomolez
	What earlier peace deal - that Ukraine was ready to accept - was sabotaged by the UK/US?

It is all based on a single article from the online newspaper Ukrayinska Pravda that speculates about this topic.

Amusing that people who attack "fake news media" are only too happy to quote from obscure media as if it was somehow factual and believable.

marton · #**8153** 26.10.2022, 21:23

Video of recently mobilised and captured Russians who claim they were forced to the front line at gunpoint, no idea if it is true nor how well they translated.

kiwiguy08 · #**8154** 27.10.2022, 04:57

	Quote:	marton
	Video of recently mobilised and captured Russians who claim they were forced to the front line at gunpoint, no idea if it is true nor how well they translated.

Delete this. It’s propaganda from Kiev, also Chuff doesn’t like misinformation

Not to mention it probably violates the Geneva Convention

Phil_MCR · #**8155** 27.10.2022, 09:24

	Quote:	marton
	Video of recently mobilised and captured Russians who claim they were forced to the front line at gunpoint, no idea if it is true nor how well they translated.

It's SOP for RU now: first line are the recruited prisoners used as cannon fodder, behind them in the 2nd line are the mobiks who are instructed to shoot prisoners who try to flee, behind them the regular army who then watch over the 2nd line.

Sure a lot of them are going to die, but they might take out a few UA soldiers and slow them down. Plus, dying is a bonus for RU since they tried to recruit mobiks esp. from regions that are unstable and might revolt in the future and so pre-emptively remove potential future combatants.

marton · #**8156** 27.10.2022, 10:30

	Quote:	kiwiguy08
	Delete this. It’s propaganda from Kiev, also Chuff doesn’t like misinformation Not to mention it probably violates the Geneva Convention

Looking forward to you deleting all the propaganda from Moscow you have posted.

vushka · #**8157** 27.10.2022, 17:20

	Quote:	Chuff
	Sure I call people out and sometimes write things that are personal attacks (and in most cases I mean every word), but those are two very, very different things and EF did not get shut down for calling someone a ****.

well, certain members do to get banned for personal attacks - like tony clifton.
yet last week you were allowed to write that i am "****** in the head" seemingly without any ban.

maybe instead of new rules the moderators could just try applying the current rules equally to all members?

Tom1234 · #**8158** 27.10.2022, 17:24

	Quote:	vushka
	yet last week you were allowed to write that i am "***** in the head"*

Without doing a search, do we get to fill in the blanks "******" ourselves?

Is it a bit like a competition? Will there be prizes?

BritS · #**8159** 27.10.2022, 18:48

	Quote:	Tom1234
	Without doing a search, do we get to fill in the blanks "******" ourselves? Is it a bit like a competition? Will there be prizes?

Spot the ballbag

marton · #**8160** 27.10.2022, 21:05

	Quote:	vushka
	well, certain members do to get banned for personal attacks - like tony clifton. yet last week you were allowed to write that i am "****** in the head" seemingly without any ban. maybe instead of new rules the moderators could just try applying the current rules equally to all members?

might be a credible complaint if you had provided a link to this post you claim exists.