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Old 14.08.2014, 12:23
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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About "even Russia would not be so stupid as to attempt something as obvious as a 'Trojan horse' style activity." Well that is exactly what they did in Georgia some years ago with such a "relief convoy".

About "you really can't put heavy military hardware inside a truck of the size being used" True, but money, ammunition and light weapons fits OK - and if the drivers turn out to be ex-soldiers who stay and fight?
marton, without going into details, there are so many other less obvious ways of getting skilled military personnel, small arms and ammunition into Ukraine that are more effective and probably already being employed....especially given the area controlled by the rebels and its proximity to the Russian border....I don't buy this - its hype. Its too obvious and this is not Georgia. This is a good diversion though as everyone around the world is watching these trucks!
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  #802  
Old 14.08.2014, 13:10
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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marton, without going into details, there are so many other less obvious ways of getting skilled military personnel, small arms and ammunition into Ukraine that are more effective and probably already being employed....especially given the area controlled by the rebels and its proximity to the Russian border....I don't buy this - its hype. Its too obvious and this is not Georgia. This is a good diversion though as everyone around the world is watching these trucks!
About "this is not Georgia", it is also not Malaya!

The convoy appears to have ground to a halt in the city of Voronezh, several hours' drive from Ukraine.

"Prime minister Arseny Yatseniuk said Moscow should instead "send 300 empty trucks and take their terrorists back", and then there would be no need for humanitarian help."
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  #803  
Old 14.08.2014, 14:13
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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About "this is not Georgia", it is also not Malaya!

The convoy appears to have ground to a halt in the city of Voronezh, several hours' drive from Ukraine.

"Prime minister Arseny Yatseniuk said Moscow should instead "send 300 empty trucks and take their terrorists back", and then there would be no need for humanitarian help."
Heeere she cometh

https://twitter.com/courtneymoscow/s...264000/photo/1
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  #804  
Old 14.08.2014, 14:31
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

LOL

I assume the convoy is waiting until these babies are painted white?
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  #805  
Old 14.08.2014, 14:32
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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LOL

I assume the convoy is waiting until these babies are painted white?
or maybe they're peacefully escorting said convoy "just in cause..."


P.
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  #806  
Old 14.08.2014, 15:02
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?


I wouldn't get too excited....it looks like a BUK-M1-2 Air Defence System Command Post ....

It would be associated with the radar system that had previously been identified and to be really honest, if Russia did get permission to move this convoy into Ukraine, do you not think that they would want to ensure it was protected against attack from the air? Not everything big and green is deadly.

Hype!
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  #807  
Old 14.08.2014, 15:35
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I wouldn't get too excited....it looks like a BUK-M1-2 Air Defence System Command Post ....

It would be associated with the radar system that had previously been identified and to be really honest, if Russia did get permission to move this convoy into Ukraine, do you not think that they would want to ensure it was protected against attack from the air? Not everything big and green is deadly.

Hype!
Thank you for the wonky assessment.
TBHT I am in no position to comment on the pic or on any of the various pieces of daily news/propaganda/counterinformation we're being fed- that specific pic comes from the FT's correspondent in Moscow (as per linked twitter feed).
Thing is, everyone is so jumpy that as soon as a crumb of any sort of new information is divulged the media go into a frenzy, etc, etc, etc.
Fortunately or unfortunately the only thing we can do is watch as the events unfold.
IF we live long enough maybe 10-20 years from now we'll understand what was really happening http://www.englishforum.ch/images/sm...n/msncrazy.gif
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>absence of evidence ≠ evidence of absence<
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  #808  
Old 14.08.2014, 16:16
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Made me laugh! Look here (in German language)
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  #809  
Old 14.08.2014, 17:02
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Yesterday ITAR-TASS reported that the main pro-Russian rebel commander Igor "Strelkov" Girkin was gravely wounded. Today rebels gave various conflicting accounts of his well-being.

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KIEV, August 13. /ITAR-TASS/. Defense minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DNR) Igor Strelkov has been badly wounded and is in serious condition, the Donetsk-based news agency Novorossiya said on Wednesday.

“Igor Strelkov is badly wounded. We were told so by a source in the Novorossiya [common reference to the Donetsk and Luhansk self-proclaimed republics] leadership. He is in grave condition,” the agency said.


DNR Deputy Prime Minister Andrei Purgin could not confirm or deny this information. He told ITAR-TASS that Strelkov had been in the area of intensive fighting lately.


“I have no precise information, but this is likely to be true. As far as I know, he was not in Donetsk but in the area of Shakhtersk, Torez and Snezhnoye where intensive fighting is going on,” Purgin told ITAR-TASS by telephone.
When Itar-tass says you're injured, you're injured or about to become very injured

UPDATE

Igor "Strelkov" Girkin has resigned:

Quote:
Alexander Borodai has told Russian media that Girkin has resigned from his post as “minister of defense.” The DPR’s ‘council of ministers’ approved Girkin’s resignation, “in connection with his transfer to another job,” said the press center for DPR. Borodai denied that Girkin had been injured yesterday, but did not give a reason for his disappearance.
I wonder why he suddenly decided to take a "transfer" at this stage of his career? Would the transfer be to a branch office in Moscow perhaps? If so, it looks like all the top commanders who came from Moscow are fleeing like rats now that they have become surrounded. I wonder how long the rest of the rebels will last now that the top leadership is abandoning them in droves?

Last edited by esto; 14.08.2014 at 18:09.
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  #810  
Old 14.08.2014, 23:55
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Guardian reporter claims to have seen a convoy of Russian military vehicles crossing into Ukraine, look here.
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  #811  
Old 15.08.2014, 00:22
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Rosneft, the major Russian oil group, asks Moscow for $42bn to support various projects because the usual sources of funding from the West have dried up due to the sanctions

Also today the Kremlin stated that they would support the Russian agricultural sector with $1Bn to 1.5Bn per year to provide alternatives to the food imports that Russia has banned.
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  #812  
Old 15.08.2014, 00:27
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Thank you for the wonky assessment.
TBHT I am in no position to comment on the pic or on any of the various pieces of daily news/propaganda/counterinformation we're being fed- that specific pic comes from the FT's correspondent in Moscow (as per linked twitter feed).
Thing is, everyone is so jumpy that as soon as a crumb of any sort of new information is divulged the media go into a frenzy, etc, etc, etc.
Fortunately or unfortunately the only thing we can do is watch as the events unfold.
IF we live long enough maybe 10-20 years from now we'll understand what was really happening http://www.englishforum.ch/images/sm...n/msncrazy.gif
About "that specific pic comes from the FT's correspondent in Moscow" there is more in the FT now describing some of the heavy military equipment (including a Tunguska missile launcher) escorting the aid convoy.
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Old 15.08.2014, 08:11
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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About "that specific pic comes from the FT's correspondent in Moscow" there is more in the FT now describing some of the heavy military equipment (including a Tunguska missile launcher) escorting the aid convoy.
Well - in about 45 minutes I'll see if my boss' day is going to become very agitated (and mine worse):
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...s-short-border

WTF. August is a shitty month, everybody seems to be bomb/gun/war happy.
Will someone reset the planet's moral BIOS, please...
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Old 15.08.2014, 08:55
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Nah! It´s just the human race´s AutoCull® feature running.
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Old 15.08.2014, 09:14
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The Guardian saw a column of 23 armoured personnel carriers, supported by fuel trucks and other logistics vehicles with official Russian military plates, travelling towards the border near the Russian town of Donetsk – about 200km away from Donetsk, Ukraine.


After pausing by the side of the road until nightfall, the convoy crossed into Ukrainian territory, using a rough dirt track and clearly crossing through a gap in a barbed wire fence that demarcates the border. Armed men were visible in the gloom by the border fence as the column moved into Ukraine. Kiev has lost control of its side of the border in this area.
The trucks are unlikely to represent a full-scale official Russian invasion, and it was unclear how far they planned to travel inside Ukrainian territory and how long they would stay. But it was incontrovertible evidence of what Ukraine has long claimed – that Russian troops are active inside its borders.
One of two things is about to happen, either:

A) There is going to be a Crimea-style invasion of "little green men" and this is the vanguard, to be followed by regular troops and 260 white trucks carrying their food supplies. In which case relation with the West will be basically beyond repair and Cold War 2 (or WW3) will be official.

or

B) Putin has given up completely on the military attempt, and will use these 23 APC's to pull out his special forces already in Donetsk/Lugansk. His focus will then be to repair Russia's image abroad, deliver aid to East Ukraine, end sanctions and get/keep Russia integrated in the global economy rather than the path of isolation that it has been on.

Who knows what Putin is thinking, but let's hope it's "B"
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Old 15.08.2014, 10:00
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Well - in about 45 minutes I'll see if my boss' day is going to become very agitated (and mine worse):
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...s-short-border

.
I don't want to tell you guys I told you so, but..... I told you so.

The convoy of white trucks is classic misdirection. Vladimir is comin' in the back door. The border has been breached, i can't imagine the Ukraine firing on the Russian army. I doubt there is any going back now.

Border redefinition has commenced.
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  #817  
Old 15.08.2014, 17:15
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

It started. Convoy attacked, and shells reported from Russia

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...om-russia.html

Hostile space aliens needed to unite humanity.
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Old 15.08.2014, 17:33
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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It started. Convoy attacked, and shells reported from Russia

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...om-russia.html

Hostile space aliens needed to unite humanity.
Been following it on twitter - my day turned sour 15 minutes before I was about to leave sh*t
Scrap the aliens*. Bring on the comet and let's get it done with once and for all.

P.
*the worst m°therf_ckers would probably be able to negotiate themselves some kind of truce with the aliens...
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  #819  
Old 15.08.2014, 18:40
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Russia has only deployed forces to patrol its side of the frontier and its troops didn’t cross into Ukraine, the state-run news agency RIA Novosti reported, citing the FSB security service’s border guard division. Major General Igor Konashenkov, a spokesman for the Russian Defense Ministry, declined to comment.
Based on Russia's own statements, if the Ukraine military did indeed blow up some convoy inside of Ukraine's own territory, it could not have been a Russian military convoy, because there are no Russian troops inside Ukraine. Russian media has said nothing about this today, so according to them it seems didn't happen.

UPDATE

Official confirmation: the 23 APC's with Russian military plates the reporters saw cross from Russia into Ukraine did not happen:

Quote:
The UK Foreign Office summoned Russian Ambassador Alexander Yakovenko "to clarify reports of Russian military incursion".
Russia's defence ministry said the incursion reports were "some kind of fantasy".
It said: "There was no Russian military column that crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border either at night or during the day."

Last edited by esto; 15.08.2014 at 20:13.
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  #820  
Old 16.08.2014, 09:30
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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I don't want to tell you guys I told you so, but..... I told you so.

The convoy of white trucks is classic misdirection. Vladimir is comin' in the back door. The border has been breached, i can't imagine the Ukraine firing on the Russian army. I doubt there is any going back now.

Border redefinition has commenced.
About "i can't imagine the Ukraine firing on the Russian army" Seems they did! Or they did not! Maybe there are parallel universes where both are happening?

You know if somebody had written a novel last year with this theme - everybody would have said "what a ridiculous idea!"

Funny how on various forums people who are sitting in their armchairs thousands of kilometres from the action are explaining how the Guardian and Telegraph reporters could not have been where they said they were.
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