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  #8301  
Old 18.11.2022, 10:53
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Are they so wonky that they fly 100 km to a town across the border? Something seems a bit fishy in this whole thing
They can and they do get wonky, the S-300 has a range of 100+km, if it goes wrong it can fly much more than that until it lands. Ukraine's S-300 missiles were mostly manufactured 20+ years ago, no surprise some go wrong. There were cases a few years ago in Syria where older missiles (SA-5s) landed all the way in Cyprus or Israel... In 2001 the Ukrainian army in Crimea accidentally shot down a civilian airplane with a SA-5 missile over the Black Sea 350km away from the launch site

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airplane perhaps? already seen.
Most likely it was hunting a cruise missile, as these fly quite low they are difficult targets for the S-300.
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Old 18.11.2022, 11:24
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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in 2001 the ukrainian army in crimea accidentally shot down a civilian airplane with a sa-5 missile over the black sea 350km away from the launch site

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ukrainian military officials initially denied that their missile had brought down the plane; they reported that the s-200 had been launched seaward and had successfully self-destructed. Defense ministry spokesman konstantin khivrenko noted that "neither the direction nor the range (of the missiles) correspond to the practical or theoretical point at which the plane exploded.

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commenting on the agreement, gen. Oleksandr kuz'muk, the former minister of defense who lost his job after the accident,[25] told media that "the payments were a humane action, not the admission of guilt.

:d
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Old 18.11.2022, 12:25
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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:d
Yeah, of course, the incident has been highly controversial, not going to argue one way or another, just pointing out that these things can fly pretty far out, far more than the distances involved in the incident in Poland
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  #8304  
Old 20.11.2022, 16:42
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

The Czech parliament has declared Russia a terrorist state following Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia, the EU parliament will also vote on this, probably next week.
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Old 20.11.2022, 17:04
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The Czech parliament has declared Russia a terrorist state following Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia, the EU parliament will also vote on this, probably next week.
And the consequences!
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Old 20.11.2022, 17:13
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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And the consequences!
Most Western countries have a stated policy of not negotiating with terrorists so they have a legal basis for excluding Russia from International groups and meetings plus a good excuse not to talk to Russia.

This provides a legal basis for blocking companies from dealings with Russia so preventing exports of practically everything, and providing services like ship insurance.
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Old 20.11.2022, 17:47
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Most Western countries have a stated policy of not negotiating with terrorists so they have a legal basis for excluding Russia from International groups and meetings plus a good excuse not to talk to Russia.

This provides a legal basis for blocking companies from dealings with Russia so preventing exports of practically everything, and providing services like ship insurance.
Doesn't Europe still have to at least try to talk to Russia? Not like the winter is coming when one might need heat or anything...
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  #8308  
Old 20.11.2022, 20:15
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Doesn't Europe still have to at least try to talk to Russia? Not like the winter is coming when one might need heat or anything...
The major mistake the EU (led by Germany) made was to believe the best way forward was to treat Russia as a good commercial neighbour, talk to them, make deals with them, and build a future together. Now Germany and the EU regret this and admit their mistake.

Maybe not talking to Russia is also a bad idea, I do not know. Short-term pain for long-term gain will possibly work, clearly there are no obvious solutions.
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  #8309  
Old 20.11.2022, 20:52
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Does this also imply that Russians are now eligible to request refuge status?
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  #8310  
Old 21.11.2022, 00:44
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Most Western countries have a stated policy of not negotiating with terrorists so they have a legal basis for excluding Russia from International groups and meetings plus a good excuse not to talk to Russia.
The war on Syria featured the same constellation as this one, just with inverted roles. And that's just one of an almost endless list of bloody slaughters, places of destruction and unfathomable pain. If there ever was a terrorist country it's the US, Russia is very distant also ran.

So who will Europe replace the US with?
When will Europe send the US nukes home, as well as the troops stationed everywhere?
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  #8311  
Old 22.11.2022, 23:34
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Who's behind Rybar? The independent Russian news outlet Bell unmasks one of Telegram's most widely-cited pro-Kremlin military analysis channels which has over one million followers.
The entire 'operation' is financed by Prigorzhin, owner of the pro-Kremlin Wagner mercenary group.

I repost a post by Rybar today.

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Information resource reports that the Turkish government has transferred or will soon send the 230-mm MLRG-230 to the needs of the Armed Forces of Ukraine along with guided munitions for them.
The exact number of projectiles and launchers is unknown, but this multiple-launch rocket system is one of the latest developments of the Turkish military-industrial complex. Sending MLRS to Ukraine will allow the testing of weapons in conditions of intense hostilities.
TLRG-230 combines well in combination with laser illumination from the Bayraktar TB2 UAV drone.
Another 19 drones of this type will be transferred

The TLRG-230 range of 70 km and target designation from Bayraktar will significantly increase the effectiveness of the defeat.

In addition to the MLRS, the Turks will send various electronic warfare systems, as well as Sungur guided anti-aircraft missiles, which will be integrated into the Bayraktars based on an earlier agreement with Roketsan.
This might be accurate information or an attempt to push the Kremlin into some actions against Turkey on the basis of fake information.

Last edited by marton; 23.11.2022 at 00:14.
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  #8312  
Old 23.11.2022, 12:19
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The major mistake the EU (led by Germany) made was to believe the best way forward was to treat Russia as a good commercial neighbour, talk to them, make deals with them, and build a future together. Now Germany and the EU regret this and admit their mistake.

Maybe not talking to Russia is also a bad idea, I do not know. Short-term pain for long-term gain will possibly work, clearly there are no obvious solutions.
The major mistake of Europe was courting Ukraine into the Western sphere without preparing for it instead of accepting the status quo. That set us on a path to conflict with Russia as has now clearly played out over the last decade.

Last edited by Phil_MCR; 23.11.2022 at 12:37.
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  #8313  
Old 23.11.2022, 12:33
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The major mistake of Europe was courting Ukraine into the Western sphere instead of accepting the status quo. That set us on a path to conflict with Russia as has now clearly played out over the last decade.
What status quo? This one? Where do you draw the line?

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  #8314  
Old 23.11.2022, 14:06
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The major mistake of Europe was courting Ukraine into the Western sphere without preparing for it instead of accepting the status quo. That set us on a path to conflict with Russia as has now clearly played out over the last decade.
Ukraine has the right to decide its allies and belonging group. The time when greater empires decided your fate is long gone...
What if India was still a colony, would you have accepted the "status quo"?
Besides as I see it no-one is courting and luring no-one. They have asked for European help since 24th of February this year. Their mistake was they didn't ask for it many years ago.

Last edited by greenmount; 23.11.2022 at 14:20.
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  #8315  
Old 23.11.2022, 18:07
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The major mistake of Europe was courting Ukraine into the Western sphere without preparing for it instead of accepting the status quo. That set us on a path to conflict with Russia as has now clearly played out over the last decade.
The Supreme Soviet of Ukraine declared independence on 24 August 1991, which renamed the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic to Ukraine.
The result of the 1991 independence referendum held on 1 December 1991; was an overwhelming majority, 92.3%, voted for independence.
Following independence, Ukraine has continued to pursue claims against the Russian Federation in foreign courts, seeking to recover its share of the foreign property that was owned by the Soviet Union.
Ukraine was one of the founding members of the United Nations, which seat it still holds since 1945.

A similar situation; on 25 August 1991, the Byelorussian SSR declared independence, and on 19 September it was renamed the Republic of Belarus.

What is this status quo that you speak of?
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Old 23.11.2022, 18:21
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The major mistake of Europe was courting Ukraine into the Western sphere without preparing for it instead of accepting the status quo. That set us on a path to conflict with Russia as has now clearly played out over the last decade.
No, the biggest mistake was to allow Germany re-unification. Ah, well...
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Old 23.11.2022, 20:26
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

As expected, the EU parliament voted today to declare Russia a terrorist state.

The adult response from the terrorists was to launch a denial of service attack on the EU parliament web site.

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Europe's largest cities will donate power generators and transformers to Ukraine as part of a joint campaign. It comes as temperatures begin to drop and Russia continues to attack Ukrainian energy infrastructure.

The “Generators of Hope” initiative, launched Wednesday by European Parliament President Roberta Metsola and Dario Nardella, Mayor of Florence and president of Eurocities, a network of more than 200 large European cities, is aimed at providing energy to essential facilities in the country, including hospitals, schools, water supply stations, relief centers, shelters and phone masts.
Practical help, not value signalling.
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Old 24.11.2022, 14:06
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Russia has been attacking the very well-fortified town of Bakhmut, Donetsk Oblast for nearly four months taking very heavy losses.
There is a rather gruesome video claimed to be of the ground near Bakhmut littered with the bodies of dead and wounded Russian soldiers, here

Any country that cared for its people would have given up on Bakhmut long ago.
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Old 24.11.2022, 14:21
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Well, Putin is not winning anything even if Ukraine surrenders today. Armenia PM is looking for sugar daddy.

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Armenia's leader vented his frustration on Wednesday at the failure of a Russian-led security alliance to come to his country's aid in the face of what he called aggression by Azerbaijan.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan called into question the effectiveness of the six-nation Collective Security Treaty Organisation (CSTO) in pointed opening remarks to a summit as Russian President Vladimir Putin looked on.

Russia, the dominant player in the CSTO, has long been the main power broker in the south Caucasus, bordering Turkey and Iran, where Armenia and Azerbaijan have fought two major wars since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.

But as Russia struggles in its nine-month-old war in Ukraine, it risks losing influence in parts of the former Soviet Union that it has long seen as its sphere of influence.

Fighting flared in September between Armenia and Azerbaijan, and the two sides said more than 200 soldiers had been killed.

"It is depressing that Armenia's membership in the CSTO did not deter Azerbaijan from aggressive actions," Pashinyan told the meeting in the Armenian capital, Yerevan.
https://www.reuters.com/world/front-...ce-2022-11-23/
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  #8320  
Old 25.11.2022, 14:23
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Assuming "Archie's" claims are true, is he a legitimate resistance fighter or a psychopath, or both? Wonder how someone who seems pleased he slit some throats will live within the law in peacetime.

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