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Old 25.11.2022, 16:42
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

A rather sad and poorly translated video about 600 recently mobilized Russians from Serpukhov near Moscow.

Seems they were given no training, no food and no communications equipment just some small arms. They were formed into a battalion with two officers and sent to the front.
Initially, nobody at the front wanted anything to do with them.
Eventually, a group of them was sent to the front line into the battle for Makiivka. A number were killed and wounded by shelling claiming to be from their own side and claim their officers ran away, later the survivors were sent back to join the others.
Then they were all sent to Baranikovka where they sit without any officers and refuse to give up their arms and refuse to return to the front line.

The Russian MOD tell a different story about their deployment.

Last edited by marton; 25.11.2022 at 16:55.
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  #8322  
Old 25.11.2022, 17:48
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Assuming "Archie's" claims are true, is he a legitimate resistance fighter or a psychopath, or both? Wonder how someone who seems pleased he slit some throats will live within the law in peacetime.

takes a special type of scum to be proud of literally stabbing other men in the back
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  #8323  
Old 25.11.2022, 18:00
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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takes a special type of scum to be proud of literally stabbing other men in the back
Easy to judge when you're safe and warm in Switzerland and you've never been in that particular situation though, isn't it? Not saying it's right but there's no specific context to form a full opinion on his actions and mindset afterwards. Yes, there might be bloodthirsty loons out there shoving knives into Russians but what if that lad had seen his family raped/murdered/tortured? If you were in that position what's to say you wouldn't do the same, given the opportunity?

If I saw my family suffer under the same debauched and twisted violence the Russians seem to be meting out to Ukrainians, I fear I would be more than happy to go nuts with a knife on those who did it if the opportunity arose.
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  #8324  
Old 25.11.2022, 18:38
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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takes a special type of scum to be proud of literally stabbing other men in the back
I fully agree. Bombing innocent civilians is much more honorable.
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  #8325  
Old 25.11.2022, 19:05
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Assuming "Archie's" claims are true, is he a legitimate resistance fighter or a psychopath, or both? Wonder how someone who seems pleased he slit some throats will live within the law in peacetime.
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takes a special type of scum to be proud of literally stabbing other men in the back
Your throat is in your back

Last edited by marton; 26.11.2022 at 16:02.
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  #8326  
Old 26.11.2022, 15:59
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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A Ukrainian official has claimed that Iranian military advisers aiding Russia were killed in Crimea, and warned to carry out targeted attacks against Iranians if they are found in occupied territories and helping Russian President Vladimir Putin.

The remarks were made by the secretary of Ukraine’s national security and defence council, Oleksiy Danilov, who said that the Iranians were in Crimea to help Russia operate the Shahed-136 armed drones supplied by the Tehran government.
Probably related to the earlier rumours (now Ukraine Govt. confirmed) that Ukrainian controls much of the Kinburn peninsula from where their special forces strike deep into the occupied territories.
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  #8327  
Old 26.11.2022, 22:49
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

An illustration of Ukraine's control of the Kinburn peninsula, I cannot check if it is accurate.

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  #8328  
Old 27.11.2022, 02:15
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Easy to judge when you're safe and warm in Switzerland and you've never been in that particular situation though, isn't it? Not saying it's right but there's no specific context to form a full opinion on his actions and mindset afterwards. Yes, there might be bloodthirsty loons out there shoving knives into Russians but what if that lad had seen his family raped/murdered/tortured? If you were in that position what's to say you wouldn't do the same, given the opportunity?

If I saw my family suffer under the same debauched and twisted violence the Russians seem to be meting out to Ukrainians, I fear I would be more than happy to go nuts with a knife on those who did it if the opportunity arose.
Exactly. Understand this is precise Serbian position around Srebrenica. So well articulated.
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  #8329  
Old 27.11.2022, 10:12
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Exactly. Understand this is precise Serbian position around Srebrenica. So well articulated.
So according to your logic: if something wrong happened it is fine to do that again because it was done?
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  #8330  
Old 27.11.2022, 10:15
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Exactly. Understand this is precise Serbian position around Srebrenica. So well articulated.
Whataboutary: the last throw of the dice when you run out of logical argument.

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  #8331  
Old 27.11.2022, 10:36
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Exactly. Understand this is precise Serbian position around Srebrenica. So well articulated.
Position? Serbs murdered 8000 men and boys there. The only "position" for someone who participated in this should be dangling under the gallows.
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  #8332  
Old 27.11.2022, 11:47
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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So according to your logic: if something wrong happened it is fine to do that again because it was done?
asking Shirley?

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Whataboutary: the last throw of the dice when you run out of logical argument.
Yes, typical whataboutary. Yours, not mine.
(but I give you benefit of the doubt, honestly I don't believe you are capable of comprehending your own whataboutary, along quite a few of other things).

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Easy to judge when you're safe and warm in Switzerland and you've never been in that particular situation though, isn't it? Not saying it's right but there's no specific context to form a full opinion on his actions and mindset afterwards. Yes, there might be bloodthirsty loons out there shoving knives into Russians but what if that lad had seen his family raped/murdered/tortured? If you were in that position what's to say you wouldn't do the same, given the opportunity?
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Position? Serbs murdered 8000 men and boys there. The only "position" for someone who participated in this should be dangling under the gallows.
Ask Shirley - they had a valid reason to do so.
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  #8333  
Old 27.11.2022, 12:09
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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asking Shirley?



Yes, typical whataboutary. Yours, not mine.
(but I give you benefit of the doubt, honestly I don't believe you are capable of comprehending your own whataboutary, along quite a few of other things).





Ask Shirley - they had a valid reason to do so.
Can anybody explain me why this troll is not permanently banned?
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  #8334  
Old 27.11.2022, 14:50
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Some in UK and Ukraine are claiming that the Russians are so short of missiles they are removing the nuclear warheads and firing missiles without warheads.

Sounds unlikely but in Russia everything is possible, hope they do not manage to set one off during the removal process.
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Old 27.11.2022, 18:24
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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An illustration of Ukraine's control of the Kinburn peninsula, I cannot check if it is accurate.

Attachment 144432
A bit of an obscure place, this Kinburn. But apparently quite important to hold if you want to operate Ukrainian ports. Would be interesting to see if Ukraine is in fact able to increase seaborne exports.
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  #8336  
Old 27.11.2022, 21:27
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Some in UK and Ukraine are claiming that the Russians are so short of missiles they are removing the nuclear warheads and firing missiles without warheads.

Sounds unlikely but in Russia everything is possible, hope they do not manage to set one off during the removal process.
It's similar for the west. Nato heavily relies on air superiority to provide the shield for the troops on the ground, so the clear majority are air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles. Overall that's not useful in UA because that war is fought on the ground, so the largest part of the "everyday" Nato missiles are out of play, so to say.

That's what makes Norway's recent deliveries of Kongsberg's NASAMS (National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile System) to UA so valuable because they can use certain types of air-to-X missiles as well, not just ground-to-X ones. NASAMS taps into missile reserves that are largely unusable otherwise in this war, and reduce stress on the common air-to-X ones.
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Old 27.11.2022, 21:34
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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It's similar for the west. Nato heavily relies on air superiority to provide the shield for the troops on the ground, so the clear majority are air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles. Overall that's not useful in UA because that war is fought on the ground, so the largest part of the "everyday" Nato missiles are out of play, so to say.

That's what makes Norway's recent deliveries of Kongsberg's NASAMS (National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile System) to UA so valuable because they can use certain types of air-to-X missiles as well, not just ground-to-X ones. NASAMS taps into missile reserves that are largely unusable otherwise in this war, and reduce stress on the common air-to-X ones.
Not sure I am following. Are you saying that UA faces a shortage of HIMARS ammo? Because that seems to be the go-to kit for surface-to-surface. Or are you concerned about UA's air defense and need for ... Patriots?
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Old 27.11.2022, 21:40
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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An illustration of Ukraine's control of the Kinburn peninsula, I cannot check if it is accurate.
That's quite a big thing. Crossing over is treacherous as it makes the vessels an easy target, and doing so with heavy vehicles is probably apparent days in advance because you need big and strong ponton bridges (which may require the stabilisation by colons of normal bridges to work on such a wide river).

Allowing UA to bring everything over where they're out of RU's artillery reach looks like one more massive blunder. But then again, I've seen reports (even Tagi did and referenced OSINT sources) according to which RU is digging trenches in Crimea's northern vicinity, perhaps RU doesn't really plan to hold the Kherson oblast.
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Old 27.11.2022, 22:26
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Not sure I am following. Are you saying that UA faces a shortage of HIMARS ammo? Because that seems to be the go-to kit for surface-to-surface. Or are you concerned about UA's air defense and need for ... Patriots?
No, I'm pointing out that everything's in limited supply on both sides, and that all too often in short supply so you have to make do (though using rockets with nuclear capability appears a tad over the top indeed).

As for HIMARS, total MGM-140 ATACMS production volume according to Wiki is 3700, that's roughly 100 per year. Production capacity won't be increased as they're planned to be replaced by more modern successors. Meanwhile, quite a few ATACMS will have been delievered to allies together with platforms. The US OTOH will want to keep a big part for themselves to maintain readiness. So, at best a small fraction of the total high precision ammunition might be made available to UA. Other ammunition is available of course but that's not high precision, they appear to be unguided.

UA currently uses 2000-4000 shells per day. IIRC intelligent ones cost 5 figures a piece, top notch winged precision shells with GPS guidance (and increased range) are even in the 6-figures - not even the US would be willing (even if they had the production capacity) to shoulder that kind of daily cost. And that doesn't even touch on what's actually warehoused. That amount of shelling will invariably put a massive strain on the guns, especially the barrels, they will need replacing perhaps sooner than later. Nobody talks about that but they may well be the much more relevant bottleneck.

And so on.

ETA WRT Kinburn:
It's sandy. We've seen how well heavy vehicles do in UA's mud. Sand ground is an entirely different thing, even heavy tracked vehicles may be able to do without roads.

Last edited by Urs Max; 27.11.2022 at 22:57.
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  #8340  
Old 27.11.2022, 23:39
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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That's quite a big thing. Crossing over is treacherous as it makes the vessels an easy target, and doing so with heavy vehicles is probably apparent days in advance because you need big and strong ponton bridges (which may require the stabilisation by colons of normal bridges to work on such a wide river).

Allowing UA to bring everything over where they're out of RU's artillery reach looks like one more massive blunder. But then again, I've seen reports (even Tagi did and referenced OSINT sources) according to which RU is digging trenches in Crimea's northern vicinity, perhaps RU doesn't really plan to hold the Kherson oblast.
The Russians claimed they moved most of their heavy weapons, from the West bank of the Dnipro using ferries. I don't know if that is true.
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