 | | | 
09.12.2022, 10:02
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,552
Groaned at 746 Times in 628 Posts
Thanked 24,634 Times in 12,901 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? Video of an apparently drunk Putin at the "Hero's" reception yesterday explains why strikes against Ukrainian infrastructure will continue because "they started first by attacking the Crimean bridge"
First reports in Russian social media of their soldiers freezing to death in Ukraine, no supporting evidence provided.
| 
09.12.2022, 10:58
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Baselland
Posts: 15,796
Groaned at 308 Times in 207 Posts
Thanked 20,253 Times in 8,521 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Video of an apparently drunk Putin at the "Hero's" reception yesterday explains why strikes against Ukrainian infrastructure will continue because "they started first by attacking the Crimean bridge"
First reports in Russian social media of their soldiers freezing to death in Ukraine, no supporting evidence provided. | | | | | well, RU has a lot more infrastructure to target.
before they get too trigger happy, they might remember that a lot of their USD reserves are being held hostage, so it wouldn't be a huge surprise to me if some of those ended up paying for the UA repairs...
| This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post: | | 
11.12.2022, 14:23
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,552
Groaned at 746 Times in 628 Posts
Thanked 24,634 Times in 12,901 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Russia digging trenches on Crimean beaches.
Happy holidays
| 
11.12.2022, 14:29
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 18,810
Groaned at 837 Times in 652 Posts
Thanked 29,143 Times in 11,783 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Russia digging trenches on Crimean beaches. | | | | | Well that's a bit pointless, isn't it?
Everyone knows what happens to sandcastles when the tide comes in and it it doesn't reach that far up, the rain will wash it all away.
| This user would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post: | | 
11.12.2022, 15:19
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SZ
Posts: 4,306
Groaned at 429 Times in 307 Posts
Thanked 9,474 Times in 4,016 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Good article on the apparently pointless battle for Bakhmut
In the ‘Bakhmut meat grinder’, deadlocked enemy forces slog it out https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...inder-deadlock | 
11.12.2022, 15:24
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,552
Groaned at 746 Times in 628 Posts
Thanked 24,634 Times in 12,901 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Well that's a bit pointless, isn't it?
Everyone knows what happens to sandcastles when the tide comes in and it it doesn't reach that far up, the rain will wash it all away. | | | | | I refer you to my honorable colleague Sisyphus.
Edit: probably the Russians will be spending all their time digging snow out of their trenches.
| 
11.12.2022, 15:24
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SZ
Posts: 4,306
Groaned at 429 Times in 307 Posts
Thanked 9,474 Times in 4,016 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
And another recommended episode of the War On The Rocks podcast: Winter and Beyond: An Inflection Point in the War Over Ukraine
Mike Kofman and Ryan Evans start this episode by taking a step back to the beginning to put this stage of the war in context. Mike offers possible scenarios on the next few months of the war, discusses Ukraine's recent strikes on Russian bases deep in Russian territory, and assesses the state of forces, munitions, and kit on both sides. https://open.spotify.com/episode/2CoLcpdK9s50HqPWPeMXnY | 
11.12.2022, 15:51
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,552
Groaned at 746 Times in 628 Posts
Thanked 24,634 Times in 12,901 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: |  | | | Ukraine has been given the tick of approval to begin long-range attacks on tactical targets inside Russian territory. The United States has changed its assessments of escalation in the Ukrainian war judging that a long-range missile attack on Russian territory would not lead to a tactical nuclear attack. | | | | | If this is true and the US provides the necessary long-range weapons then it would be very helpful, especially if they can prevent the cowardly Russians from launching missiles from their own country where they believed they were safe.
| 
11.12.2022, 22:06
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Baselland
Posts: 15,796
Groaned at 308 Times in 207 Posts
Thanked 20,253 Times in 8,521 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | or dutch holiday-makers reserving their spots | This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post: | | 
11.12.2022, 23:39
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SG
Posts: 10,733
Groaned at 668 Times in 486 Posts
Thanked 14,569 Times in 7,618 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | or dutch holiday-makers reserving their spots  | | | | | That can't possibly be Dutch, there are no caravans.
| This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post: | | 
14.12.2022, 08:34
| Banned | | Join Date: May 2021 Location: transcended.
Posts: 180
Groaned at 231 Times in 121 Posts
Thanked 857 Times in 366 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? “Some units are simply running out of people. From what I saw, in only one fight, we had around 10 of our guys killed, never mind the number of wounded. Not everyone could be extracted from the battlefield, some just bled out where they lay.”
In these conditions, the common belief about Russia’s poor effectiveness as a fighting force can quickly melt away.
“They (Ukrainian military leadership tell everyone about the huge casualties suffered on the Russian side, but from what I could see around Bakhmut, things are more or less OK for them,” said Ivan. https://kyivindependent.com/national...ult-on-bakhmut | 
14.12.2022, 22:08
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Standard Russian mode: Drive a slave army to try and grind the enemy, very little flexibility. Hence the high casualties.
Note that the Russian army or other armies using Russian tactics almost always lose battles against an army since WW2.
The west should increase it's support to Ukraine against Russia and Iran.
| This user would like to thank for this useful post: | | 
14.12.2022, 22:58
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,552
Groaned at 746 Times in 628 Posts
Thanked 24,634 Times in 12,901 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | “Some units are simply running out of people. From what I saw, in only one fight, we had around 10 of our guys killed, never mind the number of wounded. Not everyone could be extracted from the battlefield, some just bled out where they lay.”
In these conditions, the common belief about Russia’s poor effectiveness as a fighting force can quickly melt away.
“They (Ukrainian military leadership tell everyone about the huge casualties suffered on the Russian side, but from what I could see around Bakhmut, things are more or less OK for them,” said Ivan. https://kyivindependent.com/national...ult-on-bakhmut | | | | | “Some units"
| This user would like to thank marton for this useful post: | | 
16.12.2022, 08:27
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Dietikon ZH
Posts: 2,624
Groaned at 30 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 4,238 Times in 1,398 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
As I have mentioned earlier in this thread, Winter will be decisive. Ukraine and the West must be relentless, and Moscovites need to feel the pain. Putin is relying on alliance cracks and/or breaking the will of the Ukrainians.
Anyone suggesting talks at this stage is sabotaging the game. For every Russian killed in Ukraine, a mother's cry will add to the protest.
| This user would like to thank litespeed for this useful post: | | 
16.12.2022, 13:33
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,461
Groaned at 201 Times in 146 Posts
Thanked 1,681 Times in 921 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Jeez, how lame.
The cracks will form because not everyone wants to give this cause the same priority.
And to root against peace so that more Russian soldiers (aka human beings) can die is despicable
| This user would like to thank kiwiguy08 for this useful post: | | 
16.12.2022, 13:38
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Kt.Zh
Posts: 12,460
Groaned at 490 Times in 405 Posts
Thanked 19,538 Times in 9,887 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
How can "peace" be achieved at this stage, Mr.Kiwiguy? I think some people want the Ukrainians to just start negotiating (does Putin even want that? btw), and I personally know some people like that irl too, who are good and decent people otherwise, but this is not a long term solution and it seems they simply don't get it. Crimea annexation had demonstrated Russia has bigger plans and should be stopped now. Our opinions definitely differ, so please feel free to groan, ridicule or whatever.
| The following 2 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post: | | 
16.12.2022, 13:42
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Lausanne
Posts: 655
Groaned at 51 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 787 Times in 413 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | And to root against peace so that more Russian soldiers (aka human beings) can die is despicable | | | | |
Would you be so kind to say that to Mr Putin as well, please? He might have something to do with all this, just a tiny bit...
/sarcasm
| The following 3 users would like to thank dandi for this useful post: | | 
16.12.2022, 13:45
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Kt.Zh
Posts: 12,460
Groaned at 490 Times in 405 Posts
Thanked 19,538 Times in 9,887 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Would you be so kind to say that to Mr Putin as well, please? He might have something to do with all this, just a tiny bit...
/sarcasm | | | | | See, the biggest problem here is not Putin et.company and their imperial complexes.....it's the Ukrainiiiians! It's Zelenskyyyy!!
Phhlease. Give me a break.
| 
16.12.2022, 13:51
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Luzern
Posts: 686
Groaned at 52 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 1,076 Times in 476 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Jeez, how lame. ... | | | | | Do you ever think of "cause and consequence" bro? | The following 2 users would like to thank nejc for this useful post: | | 
16.12.2022, 14:01
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,461
Groaned at 201 Times in 146 Posts
Thanked 1,681 Times in 921 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | How can "peace" be achieved at this stage, Mr.Kiwiguy? I think some people want the Ukrainians to just start negotiating (does Putin even want that? btw), and I personally know some people like that irl too, who are good and decent people otherwise, but this is not a long term solution and it seems they don't get it. Crimea annexation had demonstrated Russia has bigger plans and should be stopped now. | | | | |
I would say it is to have some idea of what you are fighting for. What can Ukraine accept post war? The war is now at a stage where neither side will make significant gains without some kind of calamity and should a significant gain come, the war will be escalated to new levels. (More russians mobillized or deadlier weapons to Ukraine)
1) Status quo
2) cede 2022 gains back to Ukraine with promise of autonomy
3) cede 2022 gains back to Ukraine unconditionally
4) cede Crimea back to Ukraine
5) Russian war reparations
Assuming you don't want to do option 1, it will come down to points 2-3 and that will be tough as Russia will be hard pressed to agree to 3 and even that would be a major loss for them. Getting 4 back as well would be incredibly bloody and require multiples of casualties of what we have today as the area is massively profitable. A 5 would be a catastrophic loss like the Germans in WWI/II and I think only a lost nuclear war would precede this. (assuming its not a life ending event)
So I am not saying that a negotiation is easy, it will not be. But if the Ukrainians would like our money to achieve points 3-5, then I am not sure this is a price we should pay
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 6 (1 members and 5 guests) | Excad | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:44. | |