 | | | 
16.12.2022, 16:00
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,461
Groaned at 201 Times in 146 Posts
Thanked 1,696 Times in 930 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | There's a geopolitical element to it, too. Putin has said he wants to rebuild the Soviet Union and claim back the territories which were lost. If he's placated over Ukraine, I think the rest of the former territories might be a bit twitchy wondering if they're next. And what then? | | | | | We spent 70 years, trillions of dollars hoping for the Soviet Union to collapse and now we want to protect the little countries? Russia can march in and take over all of them. It is one thing to bloodily capture countries, it is another thing to hold on to them. Even if Ukraine was captured, Russia could never hold on to it for long. It's just not possible
| 
16.12.2022, 16:03
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Kt.Zh
Posts: 12,460
Groaned at 490 Times in 405 Posts
Thanked 19,538 Times in 9,887 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | We spent 70 years, trillions of dollars hoping for the Soviet Union to collapse and now we want to protect the little countries? Russia can march in and take over all of them. It is one thing to bloodily capture countries, it is another thing to hold on to them. Even if Ukraine was captured, Russia could never hold on to it for long. It's just not possible | | | | | Yes it is and it was possible to hold on "little countries". They have installed their puppets to rule every place they once had control over.
They have planted some ethnic "unrest" in most ex-soviet countries.
If this is not utter, total control I don't know what is..
| This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post: | | 
16.12.2022, 16:05
| Member | | Join Date: May 2017 Location: Zurich
Posts: 130
Groaned at 16 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 233 Times in 124 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | We spent 70 years, trillions of dollars hoping for the Soviet Union to collapse and now we want to protect the little countries? Russia can march in and take over all of them. It is one thing to bloodily capture countries, it is another thing to hold on to them. Even if Ukraine was captured, Russia could never hold on to it for long. It's just not possible | | | | | So, you are saying it is ok to allow Russia to have some sandbox play with post-USSR countries, where trying to hold them would mean extreme amount of pain, suffering and deaths?
It is ok because you don't care about them? Or is there another reason?
| The following 2 users would like to thank Excad for this useful post: | | 
16.12.2022, 16:06
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,461
Groaned at 201 Times in 146 Posts
Thanked 1,696 Times in 930 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | You seem to ignore one simple fact:
1. When Russians go home the killing stops.
2. When Ukrainians... well, they have nowhere else to go.
I am not happy with Russians dying. But the problem with governments is - you, as a citizen, are somehow responsible for your goverment. Because you at least allowed it to exist and develop into that awful form. | | | | | 1) the killing stops? In your fantasy postwar world, the Ukranian army and the Donbass people will roast marshmallows around a giant bonfire and sing Katyusha??
2) no one is saying they should sign over the entire country?
And I also disagree that a nationality is responsible for the crimes of the government
| 
16.12.2022, 16:07
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Dietikon ZH
Posts: 2,644
Groaned at 30 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 4,260 Times in 1,411 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Russia can march in and take over all of them. | | | | | I think that illusion evaporated about 48 hours after the Ukranian invasion started. Afghanistan didn't exactly go well either. PooTin prefers puppet regime change. | Quote: | |  | | | Even if Ukraine was captured, Russia could never hold on to it for long. It's just not possible | | | | | That is indeed correct. Which is perhaps the other thing that bothers PooTin about Ukraine...he doesn't want democracy on his doorstep for fear it might be contagious.
| The following 2 users would like to thank litespeed for this useful post: | | 
16.12.2022, 16:08
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,461
Groaned at 201 Times in 146 Posts
Thanked 1,696 Times in 930 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | So, you are saying it is ok to allow Russia to have some sandbox play with post-USSR countries, where trying to hold them would mean extreme amount of pain, suffering and deaths?
It is ok because you don't care about them? Or is there another reason? | | | | | I am saying it's a soviet problem .... not mine. We cannot save the whole world!
| 
16.12.2022, 16:09
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,461
Groaned at 201 Times in 146 Posts
Thanked 1,696 Times in 930 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I think that illusion evaporated about 48 hours after the Ukranian invasion started. Afghanistan didn't exactly go well either. PooTin prefers puppet regime change.
That is indeed correct. Which is perhaps the other thing that bothers PooTin about Ukraine...he doesn't want democracy on his doorstep for fear it might be contagious. | | | | | I mean march in "in theory"....this would be beyond the Russian capabillity
| 
16.12.2022, 16:10
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Kt.Zh
Posts: 12,460
Groaned at 490 Times in 405 Posts
Thanked 19,538 Times in 9,887 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | So, you are saying it is ok to allow Russia to have some sandbox play with post-USSR countries, where trying to hold them would mean extreme amount of pain, suffering and deaths?
It is ok because you don't care about them? Or is there another reason? | | | | | Precisely this.
And right to our face. | This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post: | | 
16.12.2022, 16:13
| Member | | Join Date: May 2017 Location: Zurich
Posts: 130
Groaned at 16 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 233 Times in 124 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | I am saying it's a soviet problem .... not mine. We cannot save the whole world! | | | | | Ok, so we established that you don't care.
When would you start to care? When Poland would be annexed? Or only when Austria? Does the war need to be by your direct border to start caring?
| This user would like to thank Excad for this useful post: | | 
16.12.2022, 16:13
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,566
Groaned at 746 Times in 628 Posts
Thanked 24,663 Times in 12,917 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | We spent 70 years, trillions of dollars hoping for the Soviet Union to collapse and now we want to protect the little countries? Russia can march in and take over all of them. It is one thing to bloodily capture countries, it is another thing to hold on to them. Even if Ukraine was captured, Russia could never hold on to it for long. It's just not possible | | | | | Wake up at the back of the class there.
The Soviet Union did collapse on December 26, 1991.
As Putin demonstrates daily in Ukraine, Russia is just a pathetic shadow of the Soviet Union.
At the end of the Cold War, the Soviet Bloc represented 9% of the world’s population and 10.5% of its economy.
The equivalent numbers for Russia and its allies (the ‘Putin Bloc’) in 2020 are 2.5% and 3.5%.
Now Putin is wiping out hundreds of thousands of his own working-age people, it will take Russia decades to recover financially.
Made worse as the world slowly moves away from fossil fuels which are Russias main exports.
| The following 2 users would like to thank marton for this useful post: | | 
16.12.2022, 17:07
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Dietikon ZH
Posts: 2,644
Groaned at 30 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 4,260 Times in 1,411 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | probably makes more sense to ask what the US wants to get out of the situation and work from there. | | | | | The US certainly has to be concerned not only about China, but also Saudi Arabia. They basically spat in Biden's face whilst rolling out the red carpet for Xi. They are definitely not the allies they once were.
The US must certainly be concerned if Russia, China and the OPEC countries are conspiring to topple US (and/or US dollar) dominance.
| 
16.12.2022, 17:30
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,566
Groaned at 746 Times in 628 Posts
Thanked 24,663 Times in 12,917 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?
Press reports about a Polish police officer injured by a present from Ukraine, it is now reported this was a grenade launcher that he fired in his office... what!!
| 
16.12.2022, 18:20
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,461
Groaned at 201 Times in 146 Posts
Thanked 1,696 Times in 930 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Ok, so we established that you don't care.
When would you start to care? When Poland would be annexed? Or only when Austria? Does the war need to be by your direct border to start caring? | | | | | Well, I have been studying Russian since February to help the fellas get acclimated….jk
I dont deal in theoreticals, as much as I would like to see how brave and willing to sabre rattle the Poles are when they are actually invaded, I don’t think the Russian army ever steps foot into Poland. If they did, they would be stopped in short order. (by the US and UK, the rest of NATO would still be scratching their behinds by the time the conflict ended)
| The following 3 users would like to thank kiwiguy08 for this useful post: | | 
16.12.2022, 18:38
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: BL
Posts: 1,322
Groaned at 243 Times in 177 Posts
Thanked 4,937 Times in 1,881 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Press reports about a Polish police officer injured by a present from Ukraine, it is now reported this was a grenade launcher that he fired in his office... what!! | | | | | Yeah, the details are still sketchy, but its seems like it's just bad luck and lack of knowledge (Ukrainians gifted him with a grenade launcher and police officers, unless youre in the US, are not used to such weapons so probably misfired.)
| The following 2 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post: | | 
16.12.2022, 22:15
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Baselland
Posts: 15,816
Groaned at 310 Times in 209 Posts
Thanked 20,276 Times in 8,531 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | The US certainly has to be concerned not only about China, but also Saudi Arabia. They basically spat in Biden's face whilst rolling out the red carpet for Xi. They are definitely not the allies they once were.
The US must certainly be concerned if Russia, China and the OPEC countries are conspiring to topple US (and/or US dollar) dominance. | | | | | can't really blame MBS given all of Biden's pre-election posturing. Biden made a lot of noise over it and basically snubbed him and only came crawling to beg for oil.
the reality is that US and Saudi's are intertwined for business reasons only. US has not much in common with values or culture. they're happy to overlook and keep quiet human rights abuses there to keep oil flow and keep selling arms to them.
China can do business with Saudis and Russians and are happy to leave the politics out of it.
| 
16.12.2022, 22:26
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SZ
Posts: 4,332
Groaned at 431 Times in 309 Posts
Thanked 9,555 Times in 4,045 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Well, I have been studying Russian since February to help the fellas get acclimated….jk
I dont deal in theoreticals, as much as I would like to see how brave and willing to sabre rattle the Poles are when they are actually invaded, I don’t think the Russian army ever steps foot into Poland. If they did, they would be stopped in short order. (by the US and UK, the rest of NATO would still be scratching their behinds by the time the conflict ended) | | | | | I bet that in that unlikely case the Balts, the Czech and the Finns would be game. The Germans would talk about "Zeitenwende" and wear ribbons.
| 
16.12.2022, 22:30
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 5,896
Groaned at 114 Times in 103 Posts
Thanked 8,605 Times in 4,043 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | US has not much in common with values or culture. | | | | | Urban sprawl and the impossibility of being a pedestrian in Riyadh is indistinguishable from Houston metro area | The following 2 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post: | | 
16.12.2022, 22:43
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,566
Groaned at 746 Times in 628 Posts
Thanked 24,663 Times in 12,917 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | The US certainly has to be concerned not only about China, but also Saudi Arabia. They basically spat in Biden's face whilst rolling out the red carpet for Xi. They are definitely not the allies they once were.
The US must certainly be concerned if Russia, China and the OPEC countries are conspiring to topple US (and/or US dollar) dominance. | | | | | An impossible dream to topple US dollar dominance, currently, the US currency composition of official foreign exchange reserves worldwide is around 60%.
The US dollar also accounts for around 88.3% of daily trades in the foreign exchange market.
The Chinese renminbi accounts for just 2% of global payments, is involved in approximately 4% of forex trades internationally and makes up around 2% of foreign currency reserves globally.
The Saudi ryal accounts for less than 1% all round.
| 
16.12.2022, 23:00
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Kt.Zh
Posts: 12,460
Groaned at 490 Times in 405 Posts
Thanked 19,538 Times in 9,887 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | Well, I have been studying Russian since February to help the fellas get acclimated….jk
I dont deal in theoreticals, as much as I would like to see how brave and willing to sabre rattle the Poles are when they are actually invaded, I don’t think the Russian army ever steps foot into Poland. If they did, they would be stopped in short order. (by the US and UK, the rest of NATO would still be scratching their behinds by the time the conflict ended) | | | | | Speaking Serbian natively must be of great help. | This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post: | | 
16.12.2022, 23:02
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,566
Groaned at 746 Times in 628 Posts
Thanked 24,663 Times in 12,917 Posts
| | Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? | Quote: | |  | | | can't really blame MBS given all of Biden's pre-election posturing. Biden made a lot of noise over it and basically snubbed him and only came crawling to beg for oil.
the reality is that US and Saudi's are intertwined for business reasons only. US has not much in common with values or culture. they're happy to overlook and keep quiet human rights abuses there to keep oil flow and keep selling arms to them.
China can do business with Saudis and Russians and are happy to leave the politics out of it. | | | | | The "elite" in both Saudi and the US is only interested in filling their pockets.
If by the culture you mean alcohol drinking then in my time the causeway linking Saudi Arabia to Bahrain was lined at night with Saudi Rolls Royces sleeping off their Bahrain alcohol.
If you mean religion then there is little difference between Muslims and evangelicals on topics like LGBTQ, gay marriage, adultery, science, and trying to fit rules written over a thousand years ago to today's world.
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:53. | |