World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine? - Page 445

Excad · #**8881** 07.02.2023, 10:06

	Quote:	kiwiguy08
	What motivation would this person have to lie?

Sorry for being blunt, but whoever said whatever, one things stays - it is in the best interest of every truly democratic country (Ukraine included - they aim to be one) that Russia doesn't gain anything from this war. This is the only sustainable solution. Lessons learned are important.

Otherwise another country could follow this path or Russia could just take time to regroup and strike again.

Phil_MCR · #**8882** 07.02.2023, 10:26

	Quote:	Excad
	Sorry for being blunt, but whoever said whatever, one things stays - it is in the best interest of every truly democratic country that Russia doesn't gain anything from this war. This is the only sustainable solution. Lessons learned are important. Otherwise another country could follow this path or Russia could just take time to regroup and strike again.

Pretty much what happened after 2014. With no real repercussions from that, it's hardly surprising that Putin was emboldened to go for a second helping.

marton · #**8883** 07.02.2023, 19:09

	Quote:	greenmount
	After so many tanks have been delivered or promised to UA it looks like Putin wants to negotiate? Or is it too early to say anything? https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ia-2023-01-29/

Pleasant surprise.

"First Leopard 2 tanks arrive in Kyiv from Germany, Ukrainian defense minister says"

slammer · #**8884** 07.02.2023, 19:19

	Quote:	marton
	Pleasant surprise. "First Leopard 2 tanks arrive in Kyiv from Germany, Ukrainian defense minister says"

That means that the escalation is here. Putin will not take that without retaliation.
By the way, just read on yahoo..:

	Quote:
	President Biden warns that the risk of nuclear 'Armageddon' is at its highest point since the Cuban Missile Crisis — 3 top stocks to consider if tensions keep rising

Is that really a thing that money people are thinking about when the bombs drop?

kiwiguy08 · #**8885** 07.02.2023, 19:38

	Quote:	Excad
	Sorry for being blunt, but whoever said whatever, one things stays - it is in the best interest of every truly democratic country (Ukraine included - they aim to be one) that Russia doesn't gain anything from this war. This is the only sustainable solution. Lessons learned are important. Otherwise another country could follow this path or Russia could just take time to regroup and strike again.

Sorry for being blunt, but whoever said whatever, one things stays : ?????

Ukraine included - they aim to be one: debatable

Russia doesn't gain anything from this war: even if Russia gets the parts of Ukraine that don‘t want Russia there, it will be immensely hard to keep it.

This is the only sustainable solution: So bilking the United States of money it doesn‘t have is sustainable?

Axa · #**8886** 07.02.2023, 19:40

	Quote:	slammer
	Is that really a thing that money people are thinking about when the bombs drop?

Of course. I cannot think of other events that would make people more emotional, thus the best time to buy something for lower price. There's a chance that the Armageddon is a dud...and the payoff will be great.

slammer · #**8887** 07.02.2023, 20:19

	Quote:	Axa
	Of course. I cannot think of other events that would make people more emotional, thus the best time to buy something for lower price. There's a chance that the Armageddon is a dud...and the payoff will be great.

Reminds me of this little gem:

Reb77Br · #**8888** 08.02.2023, 17:10

Sounds as if this isn't thought to be a Ukrainian hit.

Notorious Russian nationalist Igor Mangushev shot dead in Ukraine

Putin mercenary who 'waved the skull of a dead Ukrainian' and called for civilians to be murdered DIES after he was shot in the head in mystery attack

litespeed · #**8889** 08.02.2023, 17:14

I agree with the article...Russia is likely headed back to the thuggish 90s, where a "hostile takeover" basically meant "my private army is bigger than yours".

kiwiguy08 · #**8890** 08.02.2023, 21:13

The author Seymour Hersch is alleging that it was the US with the help of Norway who blew up the NS pipeline

It's an interesting read, even if from anonymous sources. (though who would go on record with that)

komsomolez · #**8891** 08.02.2023, 21:35

	Quote:	kiwiguy08
	The author Seymour Hersch is alleging that it was the US with the help of Norway who blew up the NS pipeline It's an interesting read, even if from anonymous sources. (though who would go on record with that)

It is. I find it still difficult to see any convincing logic for any power to do this, but it is an interesting to read hypothesis.

Even without Nordstream, there still is significant capacity for Russian gas imports. I just feel that Europe will have parted for good at least on anything more than 10%. Gazprom and Kremlin spend decades building this export channel, achieved almost everything - and then f---ed it all up.

Axa · #**8892** 08.02.2023, 21:52

	Quote:	kiwiguy08
	The author Seymour Hersch is alleging that it was the US with the help of Norway who blew up the NS pipeline It's an interesting read, even if from anonymous sources. (though who would go on record with that)

US journalist just wants to discredit Russian Defense Ministry that have previously attributed the attack to the UK's navy

	Quote:
	October 29, 2022 Russia's defence ministry said on Saturday that British navy personnel blew up the Nord Stream gas pipelines last month, a claim that London said was false and designed to distract from Russian military failures in Ukraine. The Russian ministry said that "British specialists" from the same unit directed Ukrainian drone attacks on ships of Russian Black Sea fleet in Crimea earlier on Saturday that it said were largely repelled by Russian forces, with minor damage to a Russian minesweeper. "According to available information, representatives of this unit of the British Navy took part in the planning, provision and implementation of a terrorist attack in the Baltic Sea on September 26 this year - blowing up the Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 gas pipelines," the ministry said.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/reuters...ement/48015568

marton · #**8893** 08.02.2023, 22:17

"Britain to train Ukraine combat fighter pilots; the statement said the upcoming training “will ensure pilots are able to fly sophisticated NATO-standard fighter jets in the future.”"

Not sure that the RAF has the capacity to offer this training.

komsomolez · #**8894** 09.02.2023, 13:12

	Quote:	kiwiguy08
	The author Seymour Hersch is alleging that it was the US with the help of Norway who blew up the NS pipeline It's an interesting read, even if from anonymous sources. (though who would go on record with that)

According to Wikipedia, Hersh seems to have a history of writing stories relying on *one* anonymous source.

It is also strange that allegedly the mission was so secret that Navy divers were tasked instead of Special Ops in order to not having to present the mission to Congress leadership. But then, good parts of Norway's military were in the know and assisted?

Anyway, probably we will never find out.

marton · #**8895** 09.02.2023, 14:44

According to Forbes magazine Russia’s widely-anticipated winter offensive has begunlast Monday including an unsuccessful major offensive on Vuhledar.
This is the small hill top town surrounded by flat fields where the Russian elite 155th Guards Naval Infantry Brigade and 40th Marine Brigade were almost completely smashed some months ago.

It is claimed by Forbes, the Russians’ daylong attack ended in heavy losses and retreat. The survivors left behind around 30 wrecked tanks and Infantry fighting vehicles. Other sources claim Russian reserve units refused to join the attack when they saw the carnage.

Now Elon Musk is sabotaging the Ukraine military by blocking usage of his StarLink communication network.

ShirleyNot · #**8896** 09.02.2023, 14:56

	Quote:	marton
	Now Elon Musk is sabotaging the Ukraine military by blocking usage of his StarLink communication network.

I guess the spotlight has been off him for a couple of weeks more than his fragile ego can stand, sooo....

Axa · #**8897** 09.02.2023, 15:14

	Quote:	marton
	Now Elon Musk is sabotaging the Ukraine military by blocking usage of his StarLink communication network.

Considering all the money Mr. Musk gets from several parts of US government....he's now allowed to sabotage anything.

Mr. Musk is either pushing to get more money. Or, this is just propaganda to tell Starlink is not used for war drones while Starlink keeps being used for war drones.

litespeed · #**8898** 09.02.2023, 15:21

	Quote:	marton
	Now Elon Musk is sabotaging the Ukraine military by blocking usage of his StarLink communication network.

Most quadcopter drones don't require internet, as they communicate P2P with the controller. Some controllers however require an internet connection or a phone with internet connection to work optimally. GPS is more important.

Urs Max · #**8899** 09.02.2023, 15:27

	Quote:	kiwiguy08
	The author Seymour Hersch is alleging that it was the US with the help of Norway who blew up the NS pipeline It's an interesting read, even if from anonymous sources. (though who would go on record with that)

The silence on this is quite telling.

If the evidence incriminated Russia it would be frontpage news for weeks or months. Like it happened when MH17 was shot down.

marton · #**8900** 09.02.2023, 15:31

	Quote:	Axa
	Considering all the money Mr. Musk gets from several parts of US government....he's now allowed to sabotage anything. Mr. Musk is either pushing to get more money. Or, this is just propaganda to tell Starlink is not used for war drones while Starlink keeps being used for war drones.

	Quote:	litespeed
	Most quadcopter drones don't require internet, as they communicate P2P with the controller. Some controllers however require an internet connection or a phone with internet connection to work optimally. GPS is more important.

There are claims that StarLink was indeed blocked and the result was the Ukrainians got caught by surprise when the Russians assaulted north of Blahodatne, causing the command of the Ukrainian garrison to lose control over the M03 highway to Bakhmut.