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marton · #**9581** 09.06.2023, 09:17

	Quote:	slammer
	Cue Damm busters theme song. Sink a barrel of high explosives against the damm wall and boom! No more damm, this damm seems to have had multiple breeches along the length though. Not easy to do, but not impossible.

Here is a video from Moscow showing the dam where it is clear the explosion was inside.

I wish Ukraine every success but when we are a couple of thousand Km away it is hard to know what is happening. So far reports are not impressive, one video of a commander who lined up his armoured vehicles in an open field like on parade where the Russians smashed them.

gaburko · #**9582** 09.06.2023, 09:24

	Quote:	marton
	Here is a video from Moscow showing the dam where it is clear the explosion was inside. I wish Ukraine every success but when we are a couple of thousand Km away it is hard to know what is happening. So far reports are not impressive, one video of a commander who lined up his armoured vehicles in an open field like on parade where the Russians smashed them.

It was never going to be easy. All the time the Ukrainians were preparing for the offensive, the russkis were digging in. The US also confirmed yesterday about 4 assaults with "only limited success" and heavy loss of men and machines. My hope is that they can breach at least somewhere along the 1k km line and consolidate from there.

marton · #**9583** 09.06.2023, 09:40

	Quote:	gaburko
	It was never going to be easy. All the time the Ukrainians were preparing for the offensive, the russkis were digging in. The US also confirmed yesterday about 4 assaults with "only limited success" and heavy loss of men and machines. My hope is that they can breach at least somewhere along the 1k km line and consolidate from there.

Agreed but why they are launching a counter offensive around Bakhmut which has no strategic value is not clear, maybe they hope Russia will send more troops there due to the political impact of losing Bakhmut.

Many sources claim Russian forces defended in a professional way that they had prepared which is better for them than the chaos I had hoped for. Their use of land mines and helicopters was claimed to be very effective.

Such small attacks are designed to discover the quality of the defenses, hopefully they will identify weak spots.

From the Institute of Study for War " Ukraine reportedly formed 12 dedicated counteroffensive brigades, nine equipped with Western kit and three with existing equipment, and these units will almost certainly be joined by experienced Ukrainian units already online".

litespeed · #**9584** 09.06.2023, 10:11

Such losses are not uncommon when changing from defense to offense. Theoretical or simulated tactics are now becoming real, and the playbook of the defensive side is discovered the hard way. Things should improve, but it will be an uphill battle as the Russians have dug in deep.

Ukraine and the western supporters will learn the hardway that the lack of co-ordinated air support will be costly.

Reb77Br · #**9585** 09.06.2023, 20:53

Another one for the gulag. Very brave of these people to speak out.

Ukraine war: Oleg Orlov faces jail time for criticising Putin's war

slammer · #**9586** 10.06.2023, 07:23

	Quote:	marton
	Here is a video from Moscow showing the dam where it is clear the explosion was inside. I wish Ukraine every success but when we are a couple of thousand Km away it is hard to know what is happening. So far reports are not impressive, one video of a commander who lined up his armoured vehicles in an open field like on parade where the Russians smashed them.

No, don´t see that at all. to me it looks like the central part was blown, which is a barrage damm, meaning a row of metal barriers that can be lowered and raised like a weir.
Doesn´t really matter how, but more "Who?" The Russkies say the Ukes did it, the Ukes point fingers at the Russkies. If blowing the pipeline with a sailboat is a thing, then why not swim a few barrels of boom to the gates?
We will see.

marton · #**9587** 10.06.2023, 14:07

Now there are a number of depressing Russian videos showing Ukraine's attacks being hammered although it is claimed they were edited to make it look worse. One positive point from the videos is the Western armour stands up well to such attacks, sources claim most were recovered and will be repaired.

So far the Russian defenses are working better than I had hoped.

Here is a more positive view although probably exaggerated. Russia claims to have recaptured these areas, probably also exaggerated.

The land in this southern Zaporizhzhya Oblast is flat for Km so is a terrible area to launch offenses, the youtube video claims Ukraine has captured a couple of hills that are ca. 100m high.

gaburko · #**9588** 10.06.2023, 16:03

	Quote:	marton
	Now there are a number of depressing Russian videos showing Ukraine's attacks being hammered although it is claimed they were edited to make it look worse.

Here is a Ukrainian video in which you can see the Bradleys in action. This was when the Ukrainians were caught off-guard. As was explained, the armour not only stands well, but the most important thing is, just observe the discipline of these soldiers. They immediately created a smoke screen to save the soldiers when the first Bradley was hit, then the fire-control was as sophisticated as in any western army (not panic, no friendly fire) and finally, they knew the only safe way was back as sideways were mines, front were russians. Well done, even in retreat.

Actually, this "failure" gives me much more confidence in the counteroffensive. Best of luck boys, I really really want you to stay alive and win!

komsomolez · #**9589** 10.06.2023, 17:19

	Quote:	marton
	The land in this southern Zaporizhzhya Oblast is flat for Km so is a terrible area to launch offenses, the youtube video claims Ukraine has captured a couple of hills that are ca. 100m high.

What nonsense is this? Flat lands are great for offensives. Russia has historically always been vulnerable to foreign attacks because there are no natural barriers. Some historians have seen this vulnerability as a major reason why Russia needed to expand.

On the Ukrainian offensive, we are a couple of days in, most of the "news" comes from dodgy milbloggers and this operation is likely to take months. We know nothing yet.

slammer · #**9590** 10.06.2023, 18:44

	Quote:	komsomolez
	What nonsense is this? Flat lands are great for offensives. Russia has historically always been vulnerable to foreign attacks because there are no natural barriers. Some historians have seen this vulnerability as a major reason why Russia needed to expand. On the Ukrainian offensive, we are a couple of days in, most of the "news" comes from dodgy milbloggers and this operation is likely to take months. We know nothing yet.

Flat lands are Tank country, don’t forget that the greatest tankbattle of all times was fought at Ttscherkassy.

marton · #**9591** 11.06.2023, 13:54

	Quote:	komsomolez
	What nonsense is this? Flat lands are great for offensives. Russia has historically always been vulnerable to foreign attacks because there are no natural barriers. Some historians have seen this vulnerability as a major reason why Russia needed to expand. On the Ukrainian offensive, we are a couple of days in, most of the "news" comes from dodgy milbloggers and this operation is likely to take months. We know nothing yet.

Attacking across a dozen kilometers of mined open fields within the view and range of enemy artillery has not worked well in this war.
How many tens of thousands did the Russians lose in the open fields around Bakhmut?

	Quote:	slammer
	Flat lands are Tank country, don’t forget that the greatest tankbattle of all times was fought at Ttscherkassy.

Sure the Russians demonstrated this in the open fields around Vuhledlar where they lost over 100 tanks. In early November 2022, the 155th Separate Naval Infantry Brigade was mostly destroyed in the same area, and again in early February 2023 the reconstituted 155th was mostly destroyed

War has moved on since Ttscherkassy, the Soviet-era tanks cannot stand up against the highly accurate Western artillery, usually, the internal ammunition blows up and ejects the turret.
Western tanks are both much stronger and better designed so are mostly repairable after such hits.

Edit: Some strong rumours of a couple of Ukraine breakthroughs, hope this is true.

marton · #**9592** 11.06.2023, 23:43

Ukraine claims to have liberated Neskuchne, Blahodatne, and Makarivka, all along the Vremievsky ledge.
Makarivka is the most southerly about 9 KM behind the front line

There are claims the Ukraine troops have been seen as far South as Krasna Poliana which puts them 43 Km behind the front line, seems unlikely.

There are claims Ukraine has broken through near Vuhledar, no photographic evidence seen.

Hampi · #**9593** 12.06.2023, 09:00

	Quote:
	Flat lands are Tank country, don’t forget that the greatest tankbattle of all times was fought at Ttscherkassy.

That'll depend on the circumstances.

Iraq 2003, basically defenseless after the USAF raids, must be massively different from UA 2023 without air support but months of digging in and setting up defenses.

Reb77Br · #**9594** 12.06.2023, 11:32

Dmitry Mishov, Russian airman who defected, gives BBC interview

	Quote:
	A military defector who fled Russia on foot has given a rare interview to the BBC, in which he paints a picture of an army suffering heavy losses and experiencing low morale. Lieutenant Dmitry Mishov, a 26-year-old airman, handed himself into the Lithuanian authorities, seeking political asylum. (...) "I am a military officer, my duty is to protect my country from aggression. I don't have to become an accomplice in a crime. No one explained to us why this war started, why we had to attack Ukrainians and destroy their cities?" He describes the mood in the army as mixed. Some men support the war, he says, some are dead against it. Very few believe they are fighting to protect Russia from real danger. This has long been the official narrative - that Moscow was forced to resort to a "special military operation" to prevent an attack against Russia. Overwhelming and common, according to Mishov, is unhappiness with low salaries. He says experienced air force officers are still paid their pre-war contract salary of up to 90,000 roubles (£865, $1090). This is while new recruits are being tempted into the army with 204,000 roubles (£1960, $2465) as part of an official and publicly advertised campaign. Dmitry says that while attitudes towards Ukraine may vary, no one in the army believes official reports about things going well at the front or about low casualties. (...)

marton · #**9595** 12.06.2023, 12:09

	Quote:	Hampi
	That'll depend on the circumstances. Iraq 2003, basically defenseless after the USAF raids, must be massively different from UA 2023 without air support but months of digging in and setting up defenses.

The Iraqis also dug in and set up defenses, mostly relying on huge dirt Birms.

Presumably, the Russian defenses will be stronger but there are already the usual stories about poor quality concrete, probably just propaganda.

slammer · #**9596** 12.06.2023, 12:24

Tanks for the memories. Just been reading the news where it is claimed that the Russkies have cracked up to seven Leopard tanks in a short period. If this is true and after the poor showing of the Turkish Leo‘s against the Kurds a few years back, It would seem that the much feared German big cats are more 😺 than 🐆
No wonder the Germans were so reluctant to supply the Ukes with Leopards if you can plink them that easily.

ShirleyNot · #**9597** 12.06.2023, 12:37

	Quote:	slammer
	Tanks for the memories. Just been reading the news where it is claimed that the Russkies have cracked up to seven Leopard tanks in a short period. If this is true and after the poor showing of the Turkish Leo‘s against the Kurds a few years back, It would seem that the much feared German big cats are more 😺 than 🐆 No wonder the Germans were so reluctant to supply the Ukes with Leopards if you can plink them that easily.

Can you provide a link or some context?

slammer · #**9598** 12.06.2023, 12:59

	Quote:	ShirleyNot
	Can you provide a link or some context?

Came from Reuters.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ne-2023-06-11/

It would be a massive blow fro Krauss-Maffey and their supposed invincible Tanks.

marton · #**9599** 12.06.2023, 13:11

	Quote:	slammer
	Came from Reuters. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ne-2023-06-11/ It would be a massive blow fro Krauss-Maffey and their supposed invincible Tanks.

Can you provide a link or some context for your claim the tanks are invincible?

These are not the latest model, those 2a4 went out of production in 1992

kiwiguy08 · #**9600** 12.06.2023, 13:23

	Quote:	slammer
	Tanks for the memories. Just been reading the news where it is claimed that the Russkies have cracked up to seven Leopard tanks in a short period. If this is true and after the poor showing of the Turkish Leo‘s against the Kurds a few years back, It would seem that the much feared German big cats are more 😺 than 🐆 No wonder the Germans were so reluctant to supply the Ukes with Leopards if you can plink them that easily.

Never mind how hastily they were trained and without the same type of exercises that an experienced tank operator would get. It is a shame to send these people to their deaths in these machines and it’s a shame to waste our taxpayer money on this. I’d put the blame on our collective governments and this BS proxy war. Let’s see what happens with the F-16s.