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  #1021  
Old 09.11.2014, 22:48
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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This does not mean that the authorities are involved. Quite to the contrary the authorities most likely fight against it.
These words could have come from Gerard Depardieu's mouth. You're sure you're not invitee to Razman Kadyrov? He could give a lesson how to suppress dissent.
Before Russian's takeover people used to not disappear en masse in Crimea. Now they are. And bear in mind that Crimea's takeover happened without a single shot, so little turmoil and civil unrest.
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  #1022  
Old 10.11.2014, 12:18
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

The ballistic missiles deployed behind eastern Ukrainian border could assist the "rebels" much further away from the border. Russia already used artillery from within its territory this year.
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  #1023  
Old 10.11.2014, 13:09
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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The ballistic missiles deployed behind eastern Ukrainian border could assist the "rebels" much further away from the border. Russia already used artillery from within its territory this year.
Ballistic missiles can be picked up much easier by NATO radars than typical artillery. If Russia were to start firing missiles, that wold be a major escalation, as it would be much harder for Moscow to publicly deny their involvement in the fighting. Russia hasn't used their Air Force either so far, for the same reason I suppose.

I wonder tho, how much longer will Russia keep waging an undeclared war in Ukraine? By not officially declaring war, they are fighting with one hand tied behind their back, ie: they can't use their full weaponry at their disposal. Which will no doubt result in a higher number of casualties of Russian ground troops.

If Russia aims are to just keep a "frozen conflict" in East Ukraine, I suppose they can continue with the staus quo. But if they plan to make a land corridor to Crimea, and/or claim the "NovyRussia" area of nearly all Southern Ukraine, then the "pro-Russian rebel" facade will have to come down and full Russian military involvement will be required (ie: either full declaration of war, or undeniable proof via Air Force, ballistic missiles, etc.)
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  #1024  
Old 12.11.2014, 14:13
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Some newspapers are claiming that Russia is having problems keepinh Crimea supplied with food and fuel.
Ferries have been out for a week due to bad weather.
Could be a driver for the Russians to try to capture a land bridge.
I suppose Ukraine could only blow up the bridges if there was an attack. Railways are still running so a few wagons packed with explosives would do the job
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  #1025  
Old 13.11.2014, 08:17
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Some newspapers are claiming that Russia is having problems keepinh Crimea supplied with food and fuel.
Ferries have been out for a week due to bad weather.
Could be a driver for the Russians to try to capture a land bridge.
I suppose Ukraine could only blow up the bridges if there was an attack. Railways are still running so a few wagons packed with explosives would do the job

I was in Military Service with former PONTONEERS. They would have built a serious Ponton-Bridge over the straits in question within a day,. I admit that some customers become sick upon Arrival or already during the Transfer, but that is surviveable. Many become sick also on the Ferry between Jersey and St Malo, and that Ferry operates under almost ALL conditions
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  #1026  
Old 13.11.2014, 14:56
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

4.5-km pontoon bridge on sea? Withstanding ice?
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  #1027  
Old 17.11.2014, 14:11
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Cartoon of the day.

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  #1028  
Old 18.11.2014, 11:07
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

It is clear to me that US government is both heavily involved (Victoria Nuland recording) and has a vested interest, as shown the hiring of Hunter Biden, the Vice Presidents son, by Burisma Hodings, the biggest private natural gas producer in Ukraine.

This raises the fundamental problem that there's no way to separate the truth from the lies. That includes all parties involved. And as a result one is likely to simply accept what fits ones predetermined notion (confirmation bias).

As they say, the first victim of war is the truth.
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  #1029  
Old 18.11.2014, 11:43
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Good interview with Henry Kissinger in Der Spiegel. In short, he says the West is in part to blame for Putin's lashing out, as they did not include Russia in dialog before/during the Madian. He paints Putin as trying to reach out an become more integrated with Europe, but not feeling an equal partner, and then becoming irate.

Sounds kind of like the odd-ball kid who wants to fit in with the other kids at school, but doesn't quite manage, and then goes crazy and brings a gun to school one day. Who's fault is it? The school kids who didn't accept him, or the kid holding the gun?

Quote:
SPIEGEL: So let's talk about a concrete example: How should the West react to the Russian annexation of Crimea? Do you fear this might mean that borders in the future are no longer incontrovertible?
Kissinger: Crimea is a symptom, not a cause. Furthermore, Crimea is a special case. Ukraine was part of Russia for a long time. You can't accept the principle that any country can just change the borders and take a province of another country. But if the West is honest with itself, it has to admit that there were mistakes on its side. The annexation of Crimea was not a move toward global conquest. It was not Hitler moving into Czechoslovakia.
SPIEGEL: What was it then?
Kissinger: One has to ask one's self this question: Putin spent tens of billions of dollars on the Winter Olympics in Sochi. The theme of the Olympics was that Russia is a progressive state tied to the West through its culture and, therefore, it presumably wants to be part of it. So it doesn't make any sense that a week after the close of the Olympics, Putin would take Crimea and start a war over Ukraine. So one has to ask one's self why did it happen?
SPIEGEL: What you're saying is that the West has at least a kind of responsibility for the escalation?
Kissinger: Yes, I am saying that. Europe and America did not understand the impact of these events, starting with the negotiations about Ukraine's economic relations with the European Union and culminating in the demonstrations in Kiev. All these, and their impact, should have been the subject of a dialogue with Russia. This does not mean the Russian response was appropriate.


SPIEGEL: Doesn't that also apply to Putin, who has maneuvered himself into a corner? Does he act out of weakness or out of strength?
Kissinger: I think out of strategic weakness masked as tactical strength.
SPIEGEL: What does that mean for any interaction with him?


Kissinger: We have to remember that Russia is an important part of the international system, and therefore useful in solving all sorts of other crises, for example in the agreement on nuclear proliferation with Iran or over Syria. This has to have preference over a tactical escalation in a specific case. On the one hand it is important that Ukraine remain an independent state, and it should have the right to economic and commercial associations of its choice. But I don't think it's a law of nature that every state must have the right to be an ally in the frame work of NATO. You and I know that NATO will never vote unanimously for the entry of Ukraine.
I suggest reading the interview in full.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...a-1002073.html

I also suggest reading RT's condensed and spin-doctored version of the interview, just for laughs:
http://rt.com/news/203795-kissinger-warns-cold-war/
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  #1030  
Old 20.11.2014, 03:48
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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4.5-km pontoon bridge on sea? Withstanding ice?


yes
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  #1031  
Old 20.11.2014, 13:42
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Raiffeisen bank is the largest in Ukraine; just announced full world wide expected year losses up to 0.5Bn. Partly due to forced selling of assets in Crimea and to closing over half its branches in East Ukraine.

I understand it is now difficult to get banking services in both Crimea and in East Ukraine.
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  #1032  
Old 21.11.2014, 14:46
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Interesting. So Girkin admits the "trigger of war" was set off by himself and a group of other Russian citizens who crossed into Ukraine to seize government buildings, and that without him/them, there would be no war in Ukraine today.

Also note, that this interview is coming from a Russian right-wing media source. The same right-wing Russian media sources who repeatedly call the groups of Russians fighting in Ukraine "local self-defense militias"

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Igor Girkin, the one-time “defense minister” of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, has said that he and his squad of Russian special services soldiers started the war in east Ukraine.

He made the claim in an interview published on Thursday in the Russian right-wing newspaper Zavtra.

"It was me who pulled the trigger of war,” Girkin said.

If our squad had not crossed the border, everything would have come to an end, like in Kharkiv, like in Odesa,” Girkin said, referring to failed attempts earlier in the year to overthrow the local authorities in these cities.

“There would have been a few dozen killed, burnt, arrested - and that would have been it. But this flywheel war, which is still going on, was started by our group," he said.

He also said that he was not from the military, but from the "secret services," and confirmed that Russian regular army units are involved in the war.

Earlier Girkin said that in the beginning of April, he had crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border with a group of 52 people. The seizure of Ukrainian local government buildings, police stations and security service offices by “separatists” in eastern Ukraine started in mid April this year.

According to the UN, more than four thousand people have been killed in the fighting that has erupted in eastern Ukraine. The organization has also said that the actual number of victims of the war could be much higher.
http://www.unian.info/politics/10118...in-donbas.html
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  #1033  
Old 21.11.2014, 18:47
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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You can play your petty games all you want, but the fact remains that no compelling, unequivocal evidence has appeared supporting the Western pretense of Russian "aggression" against Ukraine.
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Interesting. So Girkin admits the "trigger of war" was set off by himself and a group of other Russian citizens who crossed into Ukraine to seize government buildings, and that without him/them, there would be no war in Ukraine today.

Also note, that this interview is coming from a Russian right-wing media source. The same right-wing Russian media sources who repeatedly call the groups of Russians fighting in Ukraine "local self-defense militias"


http://www.unian.info/politics/10118...in-donbas.html
Seems esto has answered your question; see the link where Girkin says he is in the Russian secret service, the conflict was started by Russian special forces and the Russian regular army is involved.
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  #1034  
Old 21.11.2014, 21:48
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Also a report in 20min today about an East Ukraine leader talking about Russia supporting East Ukraine rebels with money, look here (in German language).

Strange we now see several reports about rebels admitting Russian support but not similar reports from the other side about West support.
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  #1035  
Old 25.11.2014, 22:53
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Many allegations of corruption in East Ukraine. mostly around coal sales and "what happens to the relief supplies" delivered by Russia.

For example, here in Tagesanzeiger (in German) similar article here in English.

One big difficulty is "what law stands in East Ukraine, Ukraine or Russian", "who enforces the law" and "where do you find a lawyer"?
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  #1036  
Old 26.11.2014, 15:43
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

@Marton

After Victoria Nulands "Fook EU" (Assistant Secretary of State at that time), where she makes it clear that the US are active in forming the ucrainian government when she more or less says that the US are bribing the candidates and denounces Klitschko because he couldn't be bought, it should be no surprise at all that western government(s) have no interest in making unpartisan info available.

Earlier this year Hunter Biden(HB) and Devon Archer(DA) joined the board of directors of Burisma Holdings, the largest producer of natural gas in the Ucraine. HB and DA work for Rosemont Seneca Partners (as Managing Partner respectively as General Partner), which they own jointly together with Christopher Heinz (of the Heinz-ketchup family), who is the stepson of Secretary of State John Kerry. DA is also Managing Partner of Rosemont Capital LLC, the Heinz Family Office, which manages the Heinz ketchup heritage worth billions.

Most Burisma production wells are located in eastern Ucraine and operated by a joint venture with Shell. Burisma, which has headquarters on Cyprus, seems to be owned by Oligarch Kolomoisky, who operates his "Privat Group" out of Switzerland.

What this implies with respect to corruption and cronyism within US government is anybody's guess. But one thing is clear: some very powerful and influential actors have no interest in unpartisan information of the puppy, aka western Europe.

The first victim of war is the truth.
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  #1037  
Old 26.11.2014, 19:43
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Raiffeisen bank is the largest in Ukraine; just announced full world wide expected year losses up to 0.5Bn. Partly due to forced selling of assets in Crimea and to closing over half its branches in East Ukraine.

I understand it is now difficult to get banking services in both Crimea and in East Ukraine.

At present, airlinks from Ukraine to the Krim have become non-existing, and new airlinks from Russia only get started step by step. East Ukraine will get Russian banks, but far more slowly than potentially lucrative Crimea. Interesting will be the development of the wine industry in the Crimea. Not least the Crimea Champagne but also the Red and White wines.
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  #1038  
Old 26.11.2014, 20:00
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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At present, airlinks from Ukraine to the Krim have become non-existing, and new airlinks from Russia only get started step by step. East Ukraine will get Russian banks, but far more slowly than potentially lucrative Crimea. Interesting will be the development of the wine industry in the Crimea. Not least the Crimea Champagne but also the Red and White wines.
LOL
About "new airlinks from Russia only get started step by step."

Very little and slow steps

Aeroflot's first attempt at a low-cost airline, Dobrolyot (Good Flight), to fly to Crimea suspended operations in August, just two months after its maiden flight.
Its lease agreement for Boeing aircraft was cancelled under European Union sanctions because it flies to Crimea, which Russia annexed from Ukraine in March.

Now there is a new plan - Aeroflot will name its new low-cost airline Pobeda, or Victory, a symbol of defiance against Western sanctions over Ukraine that grounded the budget brand's predecessor. But nevertheless Pobeda is not planning to fly to Ukraine so it is not a strong symbol of defiance

Pobeda has two (possibly three) Boeing 737s so maybe the US is not so bad?
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  #1039  
Old 26.11.2014, 21:21
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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@Marton

After Victoria Nulands "Fook EU" (Assistant Secretary of State at that time), where she makes it clear that the US are active in forming the ucrainian government when she more or less says that the US are bribing the candidates and denounces Klitschko because he couldn't be bought, it should be no surprise at all that western government(s) have no interest in making unpartisan info available.

Earlier this year Hunter Biden(HB) and Devon Archer(DA) joined the board of directors of Burisma Holdings, the largest producer of natural gas in the Ucraine. HB and DA work for Rosemont Seneca Partners (as Managing Partner respectively as General Partner), which they own jointly together with Christopher Heinz (of the Heinz-ketchup family), who is the stepson of Secretary of State John Kerry. DA is also Managing Partner of Rosemont Capital LLC, the Heinz Family Office, which manages the Heinz ketchup heritage worth billions.

Most Burisma production wells are located in eastern Ucraine and operated by a joint venture with Shell. Burisma, which has headquarters on Cyprus, seems to be owned by Oligarch Kolomoisky, who operates his "Privat Group" out of Switzerland.

What this implies with respect to corruption and cronyism within US government is anybody's guess. But one thing is clear: some very powerful and influential actors have no interest in unpartisan information of the puppy, aka western Europe.

The first victim of war is the truth.
Sorry but what is the point that you are making?

You claim the Ukranian Oligarch Kolomoisky owns this company, Burisma Holdings.
Hunter Biden and Devon Archer are employed as directors of Burisma Holdings. But this is very old "news"; here is a WSJ article on this topic from last May.

It is well known that Hunter Biden and Devon Archer work here?
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  #1040  
Old 06.12.2014, 17:47
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

It is nearly Friday afternoon

Last edited by marton; 13.11.2020 at 22:41.
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