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  #1081  
Old 16.01.2015, 17:06
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Ok guys.

So for those who wanted to ask a couple of questions to the President of Ukraine... You will have a chance on January, 19 at 7pm in the University of Zurich. Petro Poroschenko will be there.

http://www.agenda.uzh.ch/record.php?id=25664
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  #1082  
Old 17.01.2015, 18:27
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

The meat-grinder known as Donetsk Airport continues to be at the forefront of the war. The "peaceful people" of the "DPR" gave the Ukrainians a warning to abandon before launching a massive assault yesterday:

Quote:
Also, Zakharchenko stressed the DPR was ready to maintain friendly relations with the Kiev authorities if the latter said they wanted it too. “We are peaceful people, we want no warfare,” he noted.


On Wednesday, January 14, Denis Pushilin, DPR’s representative in the Contact Group for peace settlement in Ukraine, said the DPR self-defense forces had opened up a corridor to the Ukrainian military’s withdrawal from the Donetsk airport. Pushilin stressed that this was a “good will gesture” on the part of the DPR.
http://itar-tass.com/en/world/771616

The fighting seems to be the most intense in months. Unclear who is in control. Both sides have claimed gas has been used by the other side, but unclear what type (doubtful either side would use any poison gas in close fighting at risk of exposing their own troops)
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  #1083  
Old 18.01.2015, 21:22
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Ukrainian town of Gorlovka is being bombed by the Ukrainian army. The situation is catastrophic. People cannot get the dead and wounded from the streets -- the town is constantly bombed. Around 70% of houses are left without heating, water or electric power.


VERY GRAPHIC video -- 21+
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=cTvYiuhl3JE
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  #1084  
Old 19.01.2015, 00:49
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

It seems that although the Russians did make it briefly into the airport during their assault, the Ukrainian counter-attack has driven them back , and killed pro-Russian warlord "Motorola" in the process.

Russian TV showed video of Russian Marines inside Donetsk airport:



Fighting around the airport still remains intense, some reports of Russian tanks trying to encircle the airport, other reports of Ukrainian tanks going into Donetsk.

Quote:
"The decision was taken for a mass operation ... We succeeded in almost completely cleaning the territory of the airport, which belongs to the territory of Ukrainian forces as marked by military separation lines," Lysenko said in a televised briefing.






Lysenko said the operation had returned the battle lines near the airport to the previous status quo and that the Ukrainian army had thus not violated the Minsk 12-point peace plan agreed with Russia and separatist leaders last September.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukr...atists-n288446
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Old 19.01.2015, 08:29
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Esto, the Donetsk airport is in the hands of the rebels at the miment. And these are the Ukrainian tanks that are attaking the city of Donetsk and the airport. According to the local forums Donetsk and Gorlovka are being pounded with heavy artillery and bombed from the air. People are screaming for help -- whoever still has an access to the Internet. There are a lot of casualties. What is going on, they are trying to wipe the place away? Why nobody is saying anything here? Russian media is full of the coverage.

Last edited by leonie; 19.01.2015 at 08:44.
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Old 19.01.2015, 10:44
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Esto, the Donetsk airport is in the hands of the rebels at the miment.
Russian-backed DPR have claimed to control the airport at least 10 times in the last months, but still the battle continues. Last time they said Thursday that they controlled it, but then lost it the next day, and now again this morning they announce again they control it...

Quote:
Russian-backed separatists announced Thursday they had captured the shattered remains of the Donetsk airport terminal in eastern Ukraine and plan to claw back more territory, further dashing hopes for a lasting peace agreement.

"Let our countrymen hear this: We will not just give up our land. We will either take it back peacefully, or like that," Zakharchenko said, nodding his head toward the sound of explosions coming from the direction of the airport.
..................

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According to the local forums Donetsk and Gorlovka are being pounded with heavy artillery and bombed from the air.
As long as Russians launch rockets from populated areas, it will draw return fire...

Quote:
Alexander Hug, deputy head of an Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe monitoring mission to Ukraine, said rebel forces carried out artillery attacks from within residential areas.
"These attacks ... attract counter-fire from positions opposite and other directions, which leads unfortunately to repeated civilian casualties and damage for infrastructure," Hug said.
http://www.chron.com/news/world/arti...ve-6017060.php
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Old 19.01.2015, 11:26
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

The Donetsk airport one year ago and now.
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  #1088  
Old 19.01.2015, 11:31
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Russian-backed DPR have claimed to control the airport at least 10 times in the last months, but still the battle continues. Last time they said Thursday that they controlled it, but then lost it the next day, and now again this morning they announce again they control it...



..................



As long as Russians launch rockets from populated areas, it will draw return fire...


http://www.chron.com/news/world/arti...ve-6017060.php
This is completely crazy what is happening now -- the govenment is supposed to negotiate and try to save people. I hope that those responsible will answer for this.
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Old 19.01.2015, 12:04
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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This is completely crazy what is happening now -- the govenment is supposed to negotiate and try to save people. I hope that those responsible will answer for this.
...and a military is supposed to protect and defend a country's borders, which is what Ukraine's military is currently doing. Indeed, war is crazy.
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Old 19.01.2015, 14:42
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Russian-backed DPR have claimed to control the airport at least 10 times in the last months, but still the battle continues. Last time they said Thursday that they controlled it, but then lost it the next day, and now again this morning they announce again they control it...



..................



As long as Russians launch rockets from populated areas, it will draw return fire...


http://www.chron.com/news/world/arti...ve-6017060.php
About "and bombed from the air" so the Russians have withdrawn their anti aircraft missile BUKs after the Malaysian airliner incident, good so to avoid any more tragic mistakes.
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  #1091  
Old 19.01.2015, 16:29
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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About "and bombed from the air" so the Russians have withdrawn their anti aircraft missile BUKs after the Malaysian airliner incident, good so to avoid any more tragic mistakes.
You call this 'good'? They are dropping 500 kg bombs from the air at the residential areas, and all you can say is 'good'? Do you know what it means when in the temperature below 0 the hause is damaged and you have no heating? Yes, try going to the neighbour's place -- but when there are 70% of houses left without heating -- what do they do? There is f*** genocide is going on, and the 'civilized' world is looking another way.
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Old 19.01.2015, 16:48
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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You call this 'good'? They are dropping 500 kg bombs from the air at the residential areas, and all you can say is 'good'? Do you know what it means when in the temperature below 0 the hause is damaged and you have no heating? Yes, try going to the neighbour's place -- but when there are 70% of houses left without heating -- what do they do? There is f*** genocide is going on, and the 'civilized' world is looking another way.
The Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe's monitoring mission to eastern Ukraine has released its strongest condemnation yet of what is commonly referred to as human shield tactics by the pro-Russian rebels.

A statement posted to the OSCE website said the monitoring mission "strongly regrets the use of civilian areas as firing positions, which invites retaliatory strikes and further endangers the lives of civilians."
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Old 19.01.2015, 17:06
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

This is just horrifying. I had visited Ukraine one month before it starts.
I remember speaking with some low level officials in Ternopil about upcoming negotiations with UE. They were all pretty aware that east will cause lots of problems, but they were like "yeah, in worst case scenario we can just split, no big deal". I'm curious how do they feel today.
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Old 20.01.2015, 07:18
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Ok guys.

So for those who wanted to ask a couple of questions to the President of Ukraine... You will have a chance on January, 19 at 7pm in the University of Zurich. Petro Poroschenko will be there.

http://www.agenda.uzh.ch/record.php?id=25664

I was there, in one of the outer halls with direct transmission. Very interesting. Except that only those in the central place had a very limited Chance to ask . And it was mostly Ukrainians who could ask a question.


The whole thing was in English and the charismatic chap is convincing.
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Old 20.01.2015, 09:43
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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There is f*** genocide is going on, and the 'civilized' world is looking another way.
It's a war, not "genocide". There was a stau of Russian tanks 3km long in Horlvika. Did Russian media fail to mention that? Perhaps that was the target?

Quote:
“In Horlivka, there is a 3-kilometer-long (2-mile) column of tanks heading in the direction of Ukrainian positions,” Lysenko said of the town that straddles government- and separatist-held territory north of Donetsk.
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2...lure-diplomacy
Here's a video of Russians launching GRAD's from right next to an apartment complex in Donetsk. When Ukraine fires back and hits the apartments by accident, who's to blame? Both sides I suppose, but yelling "genocide" as Russian media does on a daily basis is a far stretch.

In other news, two columns of Russian troops appeared to have crossed the border into Ukraine:
Quote:
In as clear a sign as any of the unraveling peace process in eastern Ukraine, the authorities in Kiev accused Russia on Monday of again sending regular army soldiers into Ukraine to prop up pro-Russian separatists who were losing a battle.
About 700 soldiers crossed Russia’s western border into the snowy war zone in eastern Ukraine, the Ukrainian National Security and Defense Council said in a statement that was not possible to verify independently.
They came armed with a wide array of heavy weapons, Prime Minister Arseniy P. Yatsenyuk told journalists in Kiev, the capital. The country’s intelligence agencies “confirm that men and equipment entered from Russia,” he said. Howitzers and other artillery and antiaircraft systems were said to have crossed the border.
“These items cannot be bought in a market in Donetsk or the Russian Federation,” Mr. Yatsenyuk said. “They can only come from the stock of the Russian Defense Ministry.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/20/wo...id-rebels.html

It seems the tactic of Russia is to supply mercenaries (ie: Chechens, Cossacks, etc.) to fight, and when they start to lose, then re-enforce them with regular Russian troops from over the boarder. With this tactic, the war can go on endlessly...
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Old 20.01.2015, 17:55
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

According to Tageanzeiger today there is the first news of people starving to death in East Ukraine; not much detail.
Roughly a million refugees; mostly gone to Russia.

Whole affair is a horror story with no winners, just different ways of dying.
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Old 20.01.2015, 23:12
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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It's a war, not "genocide". There was a stau of Russian tanks 3km long in Horlvika. Did Russian media fail to mention that? Perhaps that was the target?
Formally they don't call this a war -- they call this ATO (anti terrorist operation). There is no formal war between Ukraine and Russia. Their embassies are working, diplomatic relations are not suspended, the trade is ongoing, millions of people from Ukraine work in Russia, Ukrainian citizens don't need any visas to enter Russia. The Ukrainian government doesn't want to give up all these privileges so it doesn't formally recognize this as a war.

The Ukrainian government reports that the Russian army is attacking Ukraine forces. Russian media mentiones that and says that these allegations are complete rubbish.

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It seems the tactic of Russia is to supply mercenaries (ie: Chechens, Cossacks, etc.) to fight, and when they start to lose, then re-enforce them with regular Russian troops from over the boarder. With this tactic, the war can go on endlessly...
Poroshenko started new military draft -- the first of three stages. The first stage will seek 50 000 people aged from 25 to 60. They will get one month of training and go to the battlefields of E Ukraine. The second and the third draft stages are coming in April and June. Seems like he is planning a long ATO. Obviously he got no money for this (or anything else) and being financed by US and EU. With Russia supporting the rebels in E. Ukraine, this will go on forever... Do you know if any Western country takes Ukrainian refugees?
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Old 20.01.2015, 23:27
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Formally they don't call this a war -- they call this ATO (anti terrorist operation). There is no formal war between Ukraine and Russia. Their embassies are working, diplomatic relations are not suspended, the trade is ongoing, millions of people from Ukraine work in Russia, Ukrainian citizens don't need any visas to enter Russia. The Ukrainian government doesn't want to give up all these privileges so it doesn't formally recognize this as a war.

The Ukrainian government reports that the Russian army is attacking Ukraine forces. Russian media mentiones that and says that these allegations are complete rubbish.


Poroshenko started new military draft -- the first of three stages. The first stage will seek 50 000 people aged from 25 to 60. They will get one month of training and go to the battlefields of E Ukraine. The second and the third draft stages are coming in April and June. Seems like he is planning a long ATO. Obviously he got no money for this (or anything else) and being financed by US and EU. With Russia supporting the rebels in E. Ukraine, this will go on forever... Do you know if any Western country takes Ukrainian refugees?
According to the UN refugee agency
"Estonian officials have estimated that 20,000 Ukrainians are now in their country, and Mr. Cochetel said thousands more were believed to be in the other Baltic states, together with Poland, Finland and Sweden."
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Old 21.01.2015, 00:22
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

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Poroshenko started new military draft -- the first of three stages. The first stage will seek 50 000 people aged from 25 to 60. They will get one month of training and go to the battlefields of E Ukraine. The second and the third draft stages are coming in April and June. Seems like he is planning a long ATO. Obviously he got no money for this (or anything else) and being financed by US and EU.
In times of war, drafts are not uncommon. Ukraine has almost no military compared to Russia, who currently has thousands of troops, tanks, etc. massed at their border. The EU/US may supply $ to keep the country from collapsing (as the EU/US provided $ to Russia in the 90's as well), but nobody is giving them troops or "lethal aid" as they are afraid to "provoke" Russia. Ukraine has to rely on only themselves. As their Airborne motto says "If not us, then who?"

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With Russia supporting the rebels in E. Ukraine, this will go on forever..
...but Russia denies in strongest possible terms any involvement in Ukraine, so this can't be true
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Old 25.01.2015, 00:04
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Re: World War 3 or just a local spat in Ukraine?

Rebel leader Alexander Zakharchenko said yesterday that he had withdrawn from all peace talks with pro-western leaders in Kiev.
Today he said his forces had launched “an offensive against Mariupol”.

A strategic highway that links rebel-held regions to the east and the Black Sea peninsula of Crimea runs through Mariupol.

I assume Putin has finally accepted he will not be able to keep Crimea supplied with food and energy through the Winter by sea and is going for the land bridge option.

Looks like another half a million refugees and God knows how many dead.

I do not know why Poroshenko does not blow the bridges along the highway so that route would no longer be a viable option; at least for some time?

Possibly he is hoping that if Russia supports this assault in a big way (which is the only possibility to make a success of the venture) then the West will be drawn into defending Ukraine militarily? I hope not

Politicians on both sides playing games where the stakes are other people's lives?
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